128: Should I stay or should I go? with Becca Ribbing

On this episode of the podcast, we are talking about getting clarity, right? No surprise on the Career Clarity Show, but we’re specifically going to be talking about finding your way to clarity in some of the most important decision making moments when it comes to navigating career conundrums. Specifically, the million dollar question: Should I stay or should I go? 

Guest expert Becca Ribbing helps me break down when it makes sense to hang on and make the best of what you got and make the job you have into the one you want. And then the factors that might push you towards leaving and finding something new.

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Show Notes:

• Becca Ribbing
• Instagram: @BeccaRibbing
• Facebook: Becca Ribbing
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04   

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host, Lisa Miller. And I’m delighted that you are with us today. On today’s episode of the show, we are talking about getting to clarity, right, no surprise on the Career Clarity Show, but we’re specifically going to be talking about finding your way to clarity in some of the most important decision making moments when it comes to navigating career conundrums. Specifically, we are going to be talking about the million dollar question of Should I stay or should I go? We’ll talk about does it make sense to hang on and make the best of what you got and maybe make the job you have into the one you want. And we’ll talk about the factors that might push you towards leaving and finding something new. And we’ll talk about how to get clarity on that process for yourself. As there is no silver bullet one right size fits for everyone kind of an answer to a career discernment decision like this one. And because today we are talking about getting clear, I am delighted to bring you an expert on clarity on the podcast today, Becca ribbing. Becca is the author of the clarity journal and has been a coach for over a decade. She’s on a mission to help people break out of the cycles of uncertainty and struggle that hold them back. She helps women going back and forth with the big seemingly endless question of what to do next. So they can stop going around in circles and finally figure out what they truly want and create the clarity and momentum they crave. So many people find themselves stuck and unsure of their direction. Using journaling prompts and helping people become more honest with themselves. She moves her readers forward gently and empowers them to embrace their strengths while letting go of any negative self talk that has held them back in the past. Becca, welcome to the Career Clarity Show.

Becca Ribbing  2:22  

Thank you so much for having me.

Lisa Lewis Miller  2:24  

It feels like such a delight to get to have someone who cares as much about clarity as I do on to help guide our listeners and our audience through a very big, very scary kind of a decision. So where did your interest in getting the clarity and creating the clarity journal come from?

Becca Ribbing  2:44  

Oh, that’s such a great question. I actually came up with the idea when I was in the middle of my own decision making process. I had been a coach for a very long time. And I had had a my second child, and things just weren’t flowing quite right anymore. My second child is delightful and wonderful. But he had a lot of like minor medical issues like lots and lots of ear infections and just very fussy and needed lots of attention. And it was a lot of time off for me. And so when I was really kind of getting back to it, like he had turned to an I was really trying to figure out what I wanted the next stage to look like and I was doing what we all do. I was talking to a friend of mine and going back and forth and back and forth with her. And she finally stopped me She laughed. She was like, Becca, this is what you do for a career. What do you tell your clients and that was so they hit me like a ton of bricks. It just made me stop and really like took the wind out of me for a second. Like it was like someone had punched me like, Oh, that’s right. I do this, I know how to do this. I’m doing what everyone does, I’m getting stuck in that cycle of trying to figure it out, and not really helping myself move forward. So after I got off the phone call with her I went and I wrote out all of the prompts. I could think of that I asked my my clients like what is it it’s going to help you move forward is oftentimes just getting out of your own head. And so as I was writing them down, then I started answering them for myself, but I realized just how powerful it is just to be asked the question from someone else like from some from an outside perspective, and I just started getting more and more clear, and I ended up going in a totally different direction and it was really empowering. And you know, coaching is is wonderful and fabulous. But a lot of times people don’t have have the time or the money for it. And I just wanted to like be able to help reach as many people in this decision making process. So I ended up making the book.

Lisa Lewis Miller  5:10  

Very nice. Well, I feel like the obvious follow up question is, what was the clarity and the decision for you and your back and forth?

Becca Ribbing  5:18  

Oh, so before my son was born, I ended up giving up a very, very cool meditation website that I had 90 authors writing for me about beginner’s mindfulness. And it just didn’t, I couldn’t continue it on after my son was born. And it just made me remember, remember how much I love writing. And so it actually was that I need to go back and really re embrace my identity as a writer, along with being a coach.

Lisa Lewis Miller  5:51  

How cool and thus the clarity journal was born,

Becca Ribbing  5:55  

and thus the glory journal was born.

Lisa Lewis Miller  5:59  

Well talk to me a bit about this back and forth, and the seesaw and the what ifs. Because I think, from the work that I’ve done in this space, the biggest place where people get stuck on that, that merry go round over and over again, is this question of, should I go? Or is there a way that I can make everything just fine?

Becca Ribbing  6:24  

I kind of feel like, if you’re asking the question, should you go? You already know the answer is yes. It’s that’s not to say that you shouldn’t also try to fix the situation you’re in. But I think that a lot of times when people are trying to decide whether they should go or stay, especially in a specific job, the answer almost certainly is you should be trying to leave. Because that trying takes a while. So even if you’re also trying new strategies to make sure that people understand your value, or set boundaries, so people are not taking advantage of your time. There are all sorts of reasons why you can feel like you need to leave. But in my experience, the people that are hair on fire, I need to make this decision, the sucks, just leave a bad manager. And it’s really easy, I think, especially for women to hope people will change, and they are almost certainly not going to change now, you may be able to change enough within yourself that you do change the situation, I have had plenty of experiences where for whatever reason, it was not the right time to move on. From really drastic cases, like I had one client who got a job, hated her boss, but she had already switched, like, almost every year, and she had something in her background check that was gonna make it hard to get through the background check for another company. And so like we really worked on her relationship with her boss, and we were able to change her micromanaging boss into someone who has delight to work with. So it’s not that it’s not possible. It’s just the most people when I hear these stories, they’ve been in the same job for three years, five years, even longer, they are not being allowed to grow. And if an organization isn’t going to allow you to grow, it is hard to convince them to let you grow.

Lisa Lewis Miller  8:30  

What a wise response to that, like the fact that the question is coming up is actually the answer. But the timeline, and how you respond to that answer is all the stuff that is in your control and your command. And that brings up a lot of your choices.

Becca Ribbing  8:48  

Now, and I think a lot of us don’t want a job search a thing. Very few people love the job search. And quite frankly, they’re probably all narcissists, because they don’t mind like talking about themselves and having to like write about themselves in flowery, very bold language. job searches make us uncomfortable, because we are selling ourselves and we are not used to doing that. And it’s not a skill that most people have. It’s a skill that you can build. It’s a skill you can get more comfortable with. But a lot of the problem is also like you have starting friction, because you may have jobs searched three years ago to get this job. But that skill has gone away basically by the time you’re working on it. Now, you haven’t done it in a while. And so you have to brush up on how to write a resume. How do we write a resume for whatever year we’re in? Like, what are the new trends? How do I network? Like, how do I cut through the noise on indeed you know, 50 like 50 to 200 people apply for this job. How do I cut through that noise? That’s all scary and frustrating and not easy. So I do understand the impulse to just stay because in a very real level, it seems easier, except that it’s not easier is driving you crazy. And you are probably when you get to that point, you’re probably snapping at your spouse or your kids or your mom. Like you’re not at your best when you are being underutilized or stressed at work.

Lisa Lewis Miller  10:29  

Well, and Becca, what I’m hearing in the way you’re phrasing that response is you’re really creating that distinction between kind of the intellectual answer of Yes, it’s time to go like this is not sustainable, this is toxic, this is not good for you. But then the the layers of the emotionality and the the baggage and the complexity that can make us feel like we don’t actually know the answer, right? Because there’s such an interesting kind of cross pollution that can kind of start to happen when you know the answer and you know, it is hard, it kind of the layers of the emotionality start to try to convince you that you actually don’t know

Becca Ribbing  11:10  

the answer. Right? And so I usually tell people, the way you find out the answer to this question is, imagine your ideal job like, within reason, the next step, ideal job. Imagine a recruiter emailed you today on LinkedIn and said, hey, my company is super interested in your specific background. Like to interview you tomorrow. And the interview goes really well in like 24 hours later, you have a job you have a job offer? Would it be the right time to leave? If the answer to that question is yes, is the right time to job search?

Lisa Lewis Miller  11:46  

Well, I totally agree with you and love that kind of mind trick, you can play on yourself to just get to the clarity and get to the root of the situation. And the emotional layers of complexity and challenge are very, very real, especially for folks who feel like they’re already doing two or three people’s jobs in their nine to five. Even just proposing the concept of starting to be in exploring, you know, putting feelers out there around what might be next. Feels paralyzing. It feels horrifying, it feels overwhelming, it feels stressful. How do you help people to navigate the getting lost in the layers of complexity, and the emotionality of it, to help them be able to take the actions they need to take

Becca Ribbing  12:43  

to really helped them recognize their strengths, because it becomes easier to cut through that emotionality. If you feel really strong in what it is you’re selling, because you’re selling yourself. And a lot of times what really hangs people up is feeling like they have nothing to say. And I find it so interesting. Every time I talk to someone, I like a new client, I will be talking to them for probably an hour or two before I start being able to really pick out their strengths, like I will be able to tell them hey, so you’ve said this multiple times in multiple ways. Do you know that x y, z is a real strength of yours like this is something you need to make sure you’re highlighting in a resume or a job interview? Because this is what people that are going to value? almost inevitably, they pause. They look at me. And they kind of squint. And they’re like, that’s not hard. Like that’s not a good enough strength. Like Yes, it is. The reason why it’s not hard is because it’s your strength. And it does not come naturally to all the people you think it is you probably if you think back, I get annoyed when other people don’t do that well, because it is not a strength of theirs. And when I frame it, that way, they can start getting really comfortable with it and really start owning it. And but it really usually takes pointing out that other people don’t do it for them to be able to value it within themselves.

Lisa Lewis Miller  14:26  

Yes. Oh, Becca, I feel like I want to talk more about this because I noticed this in a gendered context, that I tend to see people who identify as women discounting and writing off their strength so fast under the justification that that’s not special. That’s not unique. Everybody can do that. All women do that. That’s just like everybody else. And you’re so right. That We can really disadvantage ourselves by falling into the thinking trap that everybody is a monolith. And everybody has this same capability. Even though at an intellectual level, I think all of us recognize that there are different characteristics and strengths and gifts distributed, and they’re distributed with different levels of intensity among each one of us.

Becca Ribbing  15:26  

Yeah, and I think you’re right, it is gendered. Although I do see it in men in a different way. It’s not quite so dismissive. Like they’re not dismissing themselves, it’s more that they value, more of the tangibles. And so when I point out some of the, like, more intangible qualities of what their leadership looks like, or what than being a really good employee looks like, it’s not always about the numbers, the numbers are great. But I think especially men that for some reason, don’t have great numbers in their jobs. That’s where I start seeing it, it’s like, you know, they weren’t actually a good salesperson. And so their last project didn’t go as well as they would have liked. But a lot of times, I’ll hear, you know, men run into the same problem women do, you know, you get a job where you are not given the backing to actually do that job. Like Where were you said earlier, doing the job of three people, you’re not going to be able to effectively do the job of three people, you may be able to juggle the balls in the air for a couple days, or a couple months, but you’re not actually going to successfully like create a product or ship a really great advertising campaign or whatnot, if you don’t have the support you need. So I do think that men run into that problem, too. And when that happens to them, it’s almost like they’re just in deer in headlight mode, because they feel like it was their fault, and they should have been able to do it. Whereas I think women also feel like they should have done it somewhat, but they’re usually a little more cognizant that they were asked to do the impossible.

Lisa Lewis Miller  17:05  

Hmm. Well, Becca, you know, what else is coming up for me that I see probably equally across people who identify as men and women is that soft skills are seen as being somehow inferior to hard skills, and verbose listening that definitions of hard skills and soft skills are hard skills are things that you can learn in a classroom with a book. Soft skills are things that you have to learn through the observation and the doing and the practice. And we as a society, I think, have created a narrative around hard skills like coding or being an accountant, that makes people feel like those are somehow more elevated and more important. But when you look at the kinds of qualities that get you promoted, and get you bigger, and better opportunities, they’re all in the soft skills, area of communication, cooperation, leadership, management, negotiation, navigating difficult interpersonal situations, providing feedback. And it’s, it is such a shame that for the people, where their strengths tend to fall into more of the soft skill area, it’s so easy to be so quick to, to dismiss that or to, to talk down about those kinds of capabilities. Yeah,

Becca Ribbing  18:33  

I think one of the things is really interesting as I work with a lot of project managers, and they totally will own their soft skills, because that because they have hard skills that go along with the soft skills, and they need both in a very integrated way. And so sometimes when I’m working with someone who really doesn’t understand one or the other, I will end up Brit, like, showing the integration, like through the illustration of a project manager’s job because, you know, it is you’re so right, if you were going to get promoted, and you don’t have the, if you want to get promoted, and you don’t have the soft skills, it’s just not gonna happen. I see it over and over again. And sometimes it’s really hard. I had one client, where we’re really struggling with getting him another job. And time after time, I’d bring something up and he’d be like, Oh, yeah, my couples therapist tells me that all the time. And it’s like, Okay, well, have you implemented it in your marriage? Have you implemented it at work? Like, are you actively listening like, it does get to a point where it’s like, Okay, if people are telling you or if you’re noticing that you’re not picking up on cues, probably need to think hard about what it is the other person Once because I think that sometimes a lot of things, sometimes there’s a lack of imagination about what either your boss or your imaginary boss, if you’re job searching actually needs and wants.

Lisa Lewis Miller  20:15  

That’s such a great point. And I feel like there’s so many moments of conflict or moments of miscommunication in our lives that if we just projected ourself into the other person’s shoes, and into their feelings and into their fears, all of a sudden, these points of miscommunication would just almost magically, completely resolved themselves through the power of empathy.

Becca Ribbing  20:40  

Right? Although it gets sticky, because also I run into a fair number of neuro tip neuro eight, like people that are neuro diverse. And then it becomes hard because it’s something I’ve been really struggling with lately. It’s like if we are expecting this level of soft skill, how do you teach that to a person who’s autistic? Or is it fair to expect someone who is neuro diverse, to be able to put themselves in the shoes of the boss or the hiring manager? It’s a very hard thing. Like I do feel like there’s something around all of what we’re talking about, that maybe needs to change and shift over, you know, the next couple years, the next decades to recognize what what we’re asking of people and also like being able to explicitly teach it. But I, it’s hard, it is hard to teach it to someone who doesn’t understand it to begin with.

Lisa Lewis Miller  21:40  

Totally well, and back, I feel like we could do a whole podcast on neuro diversity and, you know, workplace expectations and implicit or unconscious biases in the hiring processes. I feel like there’s a whole separate podcast there. But I want to come back to to your zone of genius around helping people get out of the swirl, and the indecision and the what ifs because I feel like when this question presents itself, should I stay? Or should I go? And you realize, hmm, the question has presented itself, that probably means I already know the answer. The next question that typically presents itself is the if not this, then what? Right, and that one can absolutely leave you feeling like you are swirling and have no sense of direction, and that it can leave you feeling immobilized.

Becca Ribbing  22:35  

Yeah, I think that a lot of times, when people get stuck on this, they’re stuck on it, because they want a fairly big change. You want to change industries, they want to change job titles, I think that when you are aware that you need another job, and that job is relatively similar to what you have now. So you know exactly what you’re googling, you know exactly what to write on the resume. It’s not as big of a leap. I think when you are struggling with whether to make a real change, part of the problem is, is we are so used to a couple things we’ve been taught in school, that asking for help, is cheating. So if we look at, you know, are the person sitting next to us at their test, and oh, hey, what did you get for number five, like, That’s cheating.

And so we don’t even because we’ve been trained so much in our adolescence, that we cannot cheat. We don’t recognize that. A career is collaborative. And I, a lot of times when someone’s trying to decide what they want to do. Let me like go look at LinkedIn. Like if you really are struggling with this, what do I do go to see what people who graduated with what you graduated with, like the specific degree at the specific University, go see what they’re doing. Like just just search for it on LinkedIn. Um, you don’t, you’ll find that a lot of times they’ll like, actually see interesting career paths kind of unfold that they hadn’t thought about. But that’s cheat, like, That’s cheating. Emailing those people and just picking their brain is cheating is really funny. So I went to physical therapy years ago, as I had a hip injury, and I was explaining to the therapist, what my job was, she was like, Oh, what is a career coach? I don’t know. She It was really funny. She was explaining to her basically, like, Well, the thing I do is I help people figure out what they’re going to do. And a lot of what I do is actually help them figure out how to create a strategy to figure out whether what they’re going to do is the right thing. And she was like, Oh, you know, if I had done that, I might not have chosen this. Like if I’d actually talked to people and heard what the job entailed. I don’t know whether I and I think so a lot of times we want to come up with 100%. Right answer. Without interviewing, talking to getting the experience of what people are like of actual human beings, we want to be able to Google it. And when we really focus on, I should be able to Google this and come up with the right answer, you’re missing the human connection, the human input. And that’s not to say that you talked to one person, they hate their job, and then you’re definitely not going into that career. Because that doesn’t work. Everyone has good days and bad days. But if you act like you were information gathering that you’re researching, if you kind of treat it like a, like a reporter job, I’m just gonna gather information about this and see what’s real and what’s not. You can make up your own mind, because you’ve received enough of the human information, not just the like black and white information of being able to read that it helps you make that decision. I think, also, it helps you really, like, become more comfortable with the 80% answer. No answer. I think everyone is looking for an answer that is 100%. Right? And they’re looking for the other answers to be zero. Like, it’s not just enough that they find the 100% answer. That’s right, the other three options that they’re kind of rolling around in their brain, those have to be dead wrong. And that just doesn’t happen in real life. In real life, you have 380 percent answers, and you need to shuffle between the two and figure it out. And you’re not going to be able to do that if you keep spinning in your head. And don’t get outside of yourself and ask for help.

Lisa Lewis Miller  26:45  

And Becca, you know, the other truth bomb that just can can wreck somebody but also be extremely helpful is the proposition that if you have several choices that are 80% a kind of means that there’s not a wrong choice that any of those might actually be quite viable and quite in alignment with the direction that you want to go next. And so it’s, it’s okay to look at maybe more than one path, and to keep going down the rabbit hole, if you will, with more than one option to see if maybe you do get a distinction of maybe this one is like the 89% ideal. So this is the next right step for me. And maybe this other one is 10 years down the line. Or to get to a place for you see, wow, these two are about 80%. And they’re slightly different 80%. And given what I’m prioritizing right now in my life, or given how my values are showing up in what my needs are right now, maybe one of these is worth doubling down on. But the idea that, that we could sort of have these sliding doors, lives where you make one decision differently, and you sort of spiral in a completely different direction. I can feel really intellectually scary. And also might not be that far away from the truth that if something changed in your priorities, or your needs or your values, having a plan B, that’s still an 80 85% viable option might actually hold a lot of mental and emotional peace in it. Right?

Becca Ribbing  28:31  

I think also, a lot of times when people struggle with that back and forth thing, it’s because everyone in their family or their friends, is telling them to take the option that they aren’t comm that seems safer, and they aren’t comfortable with and it’s why they can’t make the decision. Because they can’t make the psychic break with this is what everyone else wants me to do. But this is also like 80 89%. And this is actually what my heart is telling me to do. And so when they hire a coach, a lot of times it’s really just to make sure they’re not misinterpreting the other option, like everyone else wants them to do a they need permission to do be

Lisa Lewis Miller  29:15  

well and Becca to your point earlier about this idea of getting help and asking other people for their advice and their opinions. It’s it’s not a far leap to go from feeling like you need to make your decision in isolation in a vacuum to inviting other voices and other opinions in and then feeling like those alternate perspectives are starting to create uncertainty and worry and wonder and kind of pull you off your moring of where you might want to go. So I think it’s an interesting paradoxical balance between seeking out external input and advice and ideas without giving them permission to make the decision for you. And then creating a little feedback loop. I’ve Okay, let me process how did that feel? How does that open doors and possibilities? And I really like the mental model that Martha Beck uses of shackles on versus shackles off. Like, are you walking away from that conversation, feeling empowered and free and excited and motivated? Are you walking away from that conversation feeling like your, your latent anxiety level just bubbled up a couple more, a couple more degrees, a couple more levels of intensity on you.

Becca Ribbing  30:31  

I think some of it is also like, I tell people, especially people that are anxious to look at this, like, looking at Amazon reviews, you know, when you are trying to decide whether you’re gonna buy something on Amazon, you go and look at the five stars, and you go and look at the one stars. And a lot of times the one stars will all say the same thing. And so what you really have to decide is whether that is going to bug you, or not, like there’s all these five stars where that didn’t bug them. And so I think that when you’re taking any sort of input from other people, making sure that you’re looking at that, in the same analytical way, is this thing this person just said, Is this something that’s gonna really annoy me? Or is this something that just really annoys them, we all have different personalities, and it’s okay, if this wasn’t the right thing for them, that doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing for me, if that same thing isn’t gonna bug me.

Lisa Lewis Miller  31:28  

Totally well, and the other thing to consider too, coming back to your point about folks really wanting there to be one right answer and everything else to be dead wrong. The other part that we so often forget in our decision making process is that we are not static. We are dynamic, evolving, growing, changing humans. And that thing that might feel right for you right now might change because you’re changing. You know, Becca, you were talking about your hip physical therapy. And I mean, you could imagine being in one career where you have to sit all day every day, from you know, eight to five, and then sustaining an injury, and all of a sudden, having that not be a viable career for you any longer, because physically, it ain’t gonna work. Right? So giving ourselves the spaciousness and the grace to be allowed to evolve and change and have our requirements and our needs and work evolve with us, I think takes a little bit of the pressure off of making the perfect one to right career decision, and can actually make picking the the 80, or 85%, ideal option, feel much more viable and plausible knowing you’re going to change and evolve, and maybe the opportunity and the organization are going to change and evolve to, and maybe that makes it better, and creates more alignment over time. And maybe that means that your tenure in that position or at that organization will only be a couple of years, right?

Becca Ribbing  33:06  

I encourage people to think no more than five years down the line about this job. Because anyone who is listening to this podcast is in a process of growth and change. And everyone pretty much always is we all know someone who doesn’t really care too much about growing and just wants to party or whatnot. But most people are, you know, or has like alcohol problems or something. But like most people who are taking the time to listen to this podcast, are smart and more self aware and want the creative challenge. So whatever you choose today, that is not going to be a creative challenge in three years, you’re gonna be bored. And that’s okay. In three to five years you are two to three years or whatever depends on kind of depends on the industry and you’re in your own emotional makeup. Once you start getting bored, once you start going in that loop again, of do I stay Do I go into recognize, oh, I’m here again. I need to grow. I need to change. This job isn’t changing with me. I’ve been really hoping it would and I’m a little disappointed that it hasn’t changed with me. But that’s okay. Because I can go find something different.

Lisa Lewis Miller  34:23  

I love that. It’s such a healthy way to relate to one’s job and one’s optionality when it comes to what you’re doing. And I think that limiting yourself to thinking within a three to five year window is such a wise thing to be doing because I talked about the beginning of my own career. I started out in digital marketing and I was called the new media associate. Because social media was seen as new media back then. And organizations didn’t have email lists and some of them didn’t even have robust websites. And in the Era of my career when I was working in digital marketing, the job I was going to do three years down the line didn’t exist yet, because technologies and platforms didn’t exist. So if we remind ourselves how quickly the economy and the market can evolve, and how new opportunities can be born, you know, almost overnight, I think that it can also relieve some of the the anxiety of the over planner, which I strongly identify with myself, and open up some space to allow the market and allow the possibilities to reveal themselves to you over time, instead of feeling this pressure and stress of I have to figure it all out, and have every step choreographed for the next 20 years of my life. 

I love that. That’s perfect. Well, Becca, let me ask you this. Where do you see folks struggle the most with questions of clarity when they are going through a career related discernment journey.

Becca Ribbing  36:00  

I think they get stuck in excuses. I think I hear a lot of people say, oh, I’ll get started after this project ends in six months. If I leave now I’m going to leave my co workers high and dry. Or I need to finish up the certificate program or you know, I’m not gonna do it right now. But when my kid is four, I’ll start doing it. There are all sorts of reasons why this isn’t really the right time. And I guess I understand that I’ve been there. We’ve all been there any career coach has been there, because it’s human nature, we have literally all been there. However, I also Coach 62 year olds, who their whole career has been an accumulation of those excuses. And it is really sad to get to 62 and feel like you’re so off track and you haven’t really lived your life purpose. And, and not even just life purpose, like where you’ve been taken advantage of by the workplace. And you should have done things very differently. And I feel like what I would wish for anyone is to not experience that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  37:20  

I feel like there are so many studies that come out of hospice and palliative care where they talk about the the regrets of the dying, and nobody has ever regretted and said, I wish I spent more time at work. Right. But I think that

Becca Ribbing  37:39  

when you are nearing, especially now, you know, people aren’t retiring at 65 when you are nearing what should have been retirement age before, like when we had pensions and stuff. I think it’s really hard to get yourself to like make a massive change. It’s also really hard to convince other people to give you the chance to make that massive change. I mean, I’ve definitely helped people navigate through it. It’s not impossible. But it’s harder. ageism is real. You know, and it’s also real that like, I feel like a lot of the 60 somethings I know, trying to learn new computer programs is more difficult, like just different things are more difficult. And so really being mindful of making sure you are setting yourself up to enjoy your career because you spend so much time in it. And I think one of the reasons why people don’t wish they had spent more time at work is because they a lot of them really haven’t maximized their happiness at work. And I don’t think anyone should wish they spent more time at work. Even if you loved your job. That should not be your dying regret. However, I do think that if you’re going to spend 40 5060 hours a week at something, it It should make your heart sing. It’s like oh, I can never pronounce what’s her name. The Japanese the life changing Magic of Tidying Up.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:06  

Marie Kondo.

Becca Ribbing  39:07  

Yeah, thank you. It should spark joy. Like your career should spark joy and it is going to need to change with a fairly rare at a fairly regular cycle throughout your life for it to continue to spark joy.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:25  

And I am curious to hear if you agree with this Becca but I also feel like while your career should spark joy, the expectation should not be that you have butterflies and unicorns and glare exploding out of your computer. 10 hours a day every single day.

Becca Ribbing  39:41  

That no probably not realistic.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:44  

There should be joy available to you and your work. But we shouldn’t be going around thinking that the standard is birthday party level Joy 100% of the time. 24 seven

Becca Ribbing  39:58  

know it. That’s that That’s not realistic I don’t think that’s realistic for anyone even for outside of work you know like you know we are just not I feel like the only people that I know like that probably also are by I know they’re bipolar so like they have they definitely have a manic phases but like I’m not talking about manic joy. I’m kind of talking about just feeling good about going to work. I am talking about feeling like you are in a collaborative environment that is utilizing you relatively well. I am talking about continuing to grow like recognizing that when something has become too easy. You need to grow and it’s just time for a change that’s fine I think that’s the thing it’s like when we It feels like it’s time for a change we have to make it bad. Like in order for us to psych ourselves up to go do the job search we have to make where we are bad and it’s like well it wasn’t it’s not necessarily bad. It’s just not right for you anymore. And that’s okay.

Lisa Lewis Miller  41:11  

is not serving you in the ways that it once was. And that doesn’t mean it is evil or wrong. But it does mean it might be time to give yourself permission to start looking at what’s next. Exactly well Becca What a lovely Mic drop moment to end our conversation today on for people who have been listening to this and who are just eating out of the palm of your hand and have been loving everything you’ve been sharing Where can they learn more about you and your body of work?

Becca Ribbing  41:39  

So you can find me at Becca ribbing calm so b e cc a ribbing is r i v v i n g and you can find the clarity journal on Amazon.

Lisa Lewis Miller  41:50  

Amazing. Well, Becca, thank you so much for coming on the cleric Career Clarity Show today and sharing your brilliance with us.

Becca Ribbing  41:57  

Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.

Lisa Lewis Miller  42:06  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally finds the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.compodcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.