129: Believing in Yourself with Chrysta Bairre

On this episode of the Career Clarity Show, we are taking a a different direction than what you might hear when you listen to traditional career advice. So often, the people who rise to fame in the coaching world will be people who are peddling advice like “Just push through. No matter what, you can do it”. And while there are probably nuggets of truth in those pieces of advice, it can perpetuate oppressive and micro aggressive advice when so often in our situations in our lives, what we really need is for someone to truly see our circumstances and our situation. 

This is especially true if you belong to an underrepresented group that’s been historically excluded. Being aware of systems of oppression that affect you may not be as visible to folks who don’t belong to the same identities in the same circumstances that you do. Chyrsta Berry, speaker and authors, is here to share some refreshing career advice. We are going to talk about how to believe in yourself. Not in spite of your circumstances, but considering your circumstances and who you are, and how that creates a unique situation that you can still thrive from. 

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• Live and Love Work
• LinkedIn: Chrysta Bairre
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04   

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career.

Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host, Lisa Miller. And I’m delighted that you are with us today. And on today’s episode of the podcast, we are taking a little bit of a different direction than what you might hear when you listen to traditional career advice. So often, the people who rise to fame in the coaching world will be people who are peddling advice like just push through no matter what you can do it. And while they’re probably nuggets of truth in those pieces of advice, so often, the world of coaching will, I’m gonna give them the benefit of a doubt and they accidentally perpetuate oppressive and micro aggressive advice. When so often in our situations in our lives. What we really need is for someone to truly see our circumstances and our situation. And this is especially true if you belong to an underrepresented group that’s been historically excluded group where your identity is not the predominant one. And aware systems of oppression that affect you may not be as visible to folks who don’t belong to the same identities in the same circumstances that you do. So in today’s episode of the podcast, we are going to talk about some refreshing career advice. We are going to talk about how to believe in yourself. Not in spite of your circumstances, but considering your circumstances and who you are, and how that creates a unique situation that you can still thrive from. But it may look different from some of the sort of toxic positivity that’s peddled by so many of those people who have gotten to be very, very famous in the coaching world. So to have this conversation at a much more real level, I am delighted to bring in today’s guest Today’s guest is Chrysta Bairre. Chrysta is a keynote speaker and author of the book beautiful badass how to believe in yourself against the odds. Chrysta has presented to audiences at Boulder Startup Week, Northern Colorado women’s small business conference, Aurora Chamber of Commerce, women in business and more than 100 other events. Chrysta is also the founder of she goes Hi, a women’s leadership community for introverts in northern Colorado. Her book beautiful badass how to believe in yourself against the odds share stories and lessons from overcoming poverty and depression in this guide for women who want to take command of their destinies and no longer fall prey to the hardships and setbacks that previously defined them. Chrysta, welcome to the Career Clarity Show.

Chrysta Bairre  3:30  

Lisa, it’s so great to be here and having this conversation with you. We go a little ways back. We spoke together at Boulder started week, some years ago and have just loved following you and your journey writing your book launching your podcast. I love that and just so excited to be here on your podcast having this conversation with you.

Lisa Lewis Miller  3:49  

Well, Chrysta, it is long overdue. And I’m so glad to have you here on the podcast. And I remember back when we first met at that panel, years ago, brief endemic, I was really blown away by your story of how you got to where you are and what made you passionate about career support. So would you be willing to share a bit of your origin story?

Chrysta Bairre  4:14  

Absolutely. I would love to, you know, I grew up in the Denver area. And a much of my childhood lived in poverty. In fact, my family was on welfare. Also, there was a lot of mental illness in my family, I had family members in and out of the hospital frequently, you know, was single mom growing up. And there were many times that my mom was not okay to take care of the family and I would step in and be almost like the parent and the situation taking care of paying bills and, and taking care of my little sister and all of these things. And one thing I learned from my experience is exactly what we’re talking about, right? This idea that a lot of the systems that are in And a lot of the advices given is really given oftentimes from a perspective of, of privilege. And the thought leaders, the coaches, the whoever it is that you might be working with, I think there, there’s not always an acknowledgement that they’re coming from a place of privilege, they just only know what they know. And if they’ve had more opportunity, if they’ve had better opportunities, I mean, everyone has struggles, certainly. But the more opportunities and the more privilege you’ve had, and the better opportunities that you’ve had, you know, your own personal struggles and challenges may look very different from someone who has, who is part of a, you know, oppressed minority, or who isn’t always represented in mainstream media or mainstream, you know, thought leadership or social media, whatever that looks like, or even just, you know, represented and board meetings represented in business. And so sometimes I think there can just be this gap that occurs, and so I, I’ve lived this, right, you know, I, I lived, I had to work within my circumstances growing up, I had to figure out a way to create a successful life for myself, starting from where I was that I couldn’t start from where many of my peers were at, because I didn’t have access to the same resources, I didn’t have access to the same support. And so I had to find a way to start where I was. And to do it in a way that worked for me, I couldn’t always do all of the things that my peers could do very easily. And, you know, an example of that is, obviously I qualified for all kinds of financial aid and support and things like that when I was in high school. But the fact that we got evicted at one point when I was in high school, and you know, we’re homeless for a couple days before we found another place to live, or the fact that my mom had multiple suicide attempts, and you know, was in and out of the hospital, it meant that even though on paper, I qualified for this financial aid, and financial support, and scholarships, and all of that, the process of applying for those things was sometimes out of my reach, it was like, I’m literally just worried about like, where I’m going to sleep tonight, what I’m going to eat, what I’m you know, is my little sister have something to eat is she getting off to school, right. And so I really had to find my own way. And it wasn’t the path that most people followed, or at least the traditional path to success that were sold, I think, in our society. And it was fascinating to me, because I did not go to college, in fact, so a lot of people are surprised to hear that when they, when they meet me, I didn’t go to college, because I just didn’t have the resources to make it happen. And I don’t just mean financially, I mean, at the time I graduated high school, my mom was still in and out of the hospital a lot, my little sister still needed a lot of support. So you know, my focus just wasn’t there. But I did create a successful career for myself. And then later on, he created a successful business, doing career coaching, and what fascinated me throughout my career, particularly the elements of my career that were HR related. And then in my career coaching business is how many people I talked to, that even though their circumstances and background was nothing like mine.

They had still felt at some time, some element of this like, this traditional advice, this traditional path is not for me, it’s not working for me, and all I hear is sort of the same. Well, meaning platitudes, like just work hard, if you have the right attitude, and you work hard, you can do anything. And how often that mindset failed people that I talked to, so it’s like, I knew that it failed me. And I can point you in my situation and say, Well, you know, I lived in poverty, and there was all this mental illness in my family, and I myself have struggled with anxiety and depression. And so you know, I could sort of identify why that didn’t work for me. But then to start to hear these stories from other people, and how many people could relate to that experience of like, the so what if these well meaning platitudes, or this advice doesn’t work for me? And what do I do then? Chrysta,

Lisa Lewis Miller  9:29  

it’s such an important, I think, moment of self awareness. Because in the same way that you can hear one of these well intentioned platitudes, it’s just sort of generic. The willingness to say, wow, this is really not working for me. And to recognize that the the issue might be outside of you, but the issue is not you is a pretty profound insight. Because there’s so many people who go through a similar experience of hearing the advice, and not feeling like they have a way to make it work and then pointing the blame inward of I am not good enough. I’m not enough. I’m not working hard enough. I’m not. And, and spiraling in that way to think that they have some sort of personal fault or deficiency, that if only they could magically wave a wand and fix, everything would be better. And I’m curious, how did you get to the point where it could be? Oh, wait, the advice is broken. It’s not me.

Chrysta Bairre  10:41  

I love that you asked that question. Because I really, there was a clarifying moment. I mean, I think I knew this to some level. because growing up in school, I knew that I was very different from my peers, it was very obvious to me that I had different resources, you know, different access to things, then a lot of my peers did. And so I think there was a level of awareness around that. But it really hit home for me when I read about a 2017 study on motivation. So there was this study that was done. And it involves these inner city youth. And what they found what the study is, they were they were trying to identify what really would motivate these students to be more successful in school. And so they told the students this messaging like you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. If you work hard enough, you can be anything, you can do anything. And so that message sounds very inspiring and motivational on paper. But what they found in this study is that these students internalized that message. And the students that had less privilege, the students that had less support at home, the students that had less opportunity, less resources, what they found was these students started to perform worse in school, they’re great slipped, they started missing more days missing more classes, these students started to engage in more risky and questionable behavior. And they were like, why is this happening? You know, we were trying to inspire these students. Why is this happening. And what they found is that so much of the time, these students didn’t realize that the reason that they could do anything wasn’t true for them. They didn’t realize it was because of their circumstances, they internalize that message. And they thought, if I can’t make this work, if I can’t do anything, then there’s something wrong with me, I’m wrong. And when faced with that internalized message of I’m wrong, there’s something wrong with me, it’s not my situation, it’s not my circumstance, it’s me. Well, then these students weren’t trying as hard, then they started to engage in risky behavior, because it felt like they had accepted some level of this, like, I’m just a screw up. And this is the best I can do. This is the best I can achieve. And I read about this study, and my mind was blown, because I instantly saw how many times I had sat in rooms and heard people give a similar message, or sat with a coach or career counselor or sat with a mentor, or doesn’t matter who the person is, you know, a boss, and have them tell me some version of the like, you can do anything, you just have to work hard. That’s it, you just have to work hard, you just have to have a good attitude, and work hard. or more commonly nowadays, I think we see a little bit less of the work hard message and we see more of the mindset message where like, you just have the right mindset. You know, what’s that limiting belief you need to get over if you face that limiting belief, then anything is possible. But that’s not always true. And this is something that I say about my book is you can’t do anything. But you can do something. So what if instead you realigned and found the something that you can do, and really made that your purpose and your intention, but the message you can do anything, you just have to have a good mindset, you have to have the right attitude, you just have to work hard. That’s just not equally true for everyone out there. Sometimes it takes more than that. Some of us have different not even external Reese’s resources, but we have different internal resources. You know, for example, if you happen to be dealing with mental illness, of any kind, I have a lot of experience in this area because I’ve seen it so much in my family and dealt with it myself. Sometimes you are not as resource as you might want to be or as someone else might be. And by the way, I just want to add for Anyone who’s listening that mental illness is extremely common one in five people experience mental illness. So this is a really common thing. So if you happen to be listening and you are struggling with any kind of mental illness, I want you to know there is not something wrong with you, because you have mental illness,

Lisa Lewis Miller  15:18  

you’re a normal, you are not broken, you didn’t do this to yourself. I know, one of the interesting things for me, I kind of dip in and out of mental illness. And depression is the one in particular that I struggle with. And Krysta, I know that when I am sort of like treading water in the depression, swimming pool, it feels like it’s this, like dark that and I’m just stuck in the middle and I can’t get to the shore, I can’t get to the edge to get out. And when I’m dreading water in that space, the way I think, is different, the thoughts that are available to me are different. And when I am either on like the appropriate medication, or when I am just in a season, where that’s not something that I’m I’m working with, not something that’s a part of my day to day life. My my brains thoughts are different. And it was so illuminating on how, you know, yes, you have some control over your beliefs and your mindset. And your chemicals have some control over that, that that you don’t get to fully control, and you don’t get to fully determine. And I think that, for me, was a big game changer in how I think about and how I approach coaching, because I guarantee if there are people listening who have listened to some of the earlier episodes of this podcast, they’re probably thinking, like, you know, Lisa, you have peddled some of this stuff yourself. And they would be right. And now that I’ve had that experience, and I feel ashamed that it took me having to go through it myself to have the empathy and the understanding of the situation, but now that I’ve been through it myself, the difference in what’s possible, and what feels like it’s available, and what we feel like we have the resources to tackle is oftentimes, at least partially outside of our control, if not fully outside of our control.

Chrysta Bairre  17:37  

Absolutely. And thank you so much for sharing that I just really appreciate your perspective and your experience and, and I’ve had that experience myself, right? I think differently when I am actively in, you know, a depressive episode and to try to access different thinking requires such a huge amount of resource that it’s like some days, don’t even have those resources available to try to shift that thinking, you know, you may have days where it’s like today, the best I can do is you know, get up, take a shower, eat breakfast, go to work, do my best at work, and come home. And that that’s that’s enough. And so I think whether we’re talking about mental illness, neurodiversity, whether we’re talking about some kind of other physical ability or disability, whether we’re talking about race, or you know, gender orientation, or sexual orientation, or whatever that looks like, right is like we need to give ourselves permission to start where we are, and not expect ourselves to play at a level that we may perceive someone else’s playing out. But let’s be real, I mean, what you see on social media or on newspapers or TV or whatever, is probably a lot of times not a real accurate representation of where that person is coming from. But especially when we are, you know, reading books or following speakers or thought leaders, you know, recognizing that a lot of times the people that are in those positions actually do come from a very privileged background. And so their advice and their guidance really comes from and that they’re not doing anything intentionally wrong, or you know, they’re not misleading you on purpose. They I just think that there’s a disconnect that they don’t realize that things have just been a little bit easier for them even though things have been hard to write. But like, you know, examples of that. And, and I love Jensen cerros books, her badass books I truly do. I think there’s so much wisdom in them. And there was a disconnect for me when I was reading you are a badass at making money when she talked about you Her mindset, her books are really heavily mindset based and mindset is super important. But there was a point that she talked about making a decision to do things differently. And that she was able to borrow a large amount of money from a family friend. And that was where the disconnect came in for me, because it’s not that I think that her advice that she shared was wrong in any way. I think it’s great advice and applies in many, many situations. But I had this moment when she wrote about that in the book. And as I was reading it, that I realized, not everyone has a family member or a family friend, or anyone that they could go and borrow $80,000, from $8,000, from even $800, let’s say you are like tired of your own situation, and you’re really ready to make a change. Not everyone has access to the same resources to get back on track. And one thing that I found growing up in poverty is there are a lot of programs to help people at their worst. And then there’s a lot of programs that you can pay for to help people who are like actually already doing pretty well. But there’s this whole mid range of I think, where most of us fall, where it’s like, you’re kind of on your own. And you can that you almost have access to some of those really high level high cost programs and mentors and business coaches and things like that, right? but not quite. But there’s not a lot of other type of support, because you’re not dirt poor, you’re not at the worst of the worst. And so, you know, again, I don’t think we’re addressing that gap very often, either.

Lisa Lewis Miller  21:49  

Well, Chrysta, I want to put you on the spot to speak to that gap a little bit here. Because I think that the advice that you offered up, you can’t do anything, but you can do something is wise. And it can probably feel a little a little amorphous or a little hypothetical. So talk me through an example of kind of being in that messy middle space where you’re still trying to keep pulling yourself up and make strides and you’re not yet at the I can pay $20,000 for a private coach for three months, you know, like Fancy Pants fingers piggies out situation. How do you support somebody who’s in process and wants to aspire and strive to, to be able to be some sort of idealized version or step into an idealized career possibility? But who’s, who’s feeling like the tried and true typical advice out there just is not resonating? It’s not feeling possible?

Chrysta Bairre  23:02  

Yeah. I love this question. And it’s a little bit hard to answer in a really specific way. Because I think it depends on your specific resources, and what you have available to you. But something that I would say is a starting point is to get really curious and to ask a lot of questions. I mean, as I’ve already said, I created a successful career in a traditional employment situation for myself, Well, I never went to college, how did I do that? And honestly, for me, that looked a lot like leveraging any and all opportunities for on the job training, you know, that I didn’t have to pay for so it was basically like, if I, I was always on the lookout for different trainings that I might go to whether or not my employer offered them or not. And there were many times that I went to my boss and I said, I would like to go to this training, and here’s what I think I will personally get out of it. And here’s how I think that it will benefit you as my employer. And sometimes I was told Yes, and sometimes I was told no, you know, to those opportunities, but it was surprising how often I was told Yes. And you know, so they weren’t offered to me there was definitely a level of self awareness and self motivation and autonomy that I had to be in to take advantage of those opportunities. I was looking for them I was doing research, I was presenting them to my employer and saying I would like to to go to this training and explain why and you know, basically outlining the ROI for the return on their investment in sending me to this training.

So that’s like one example of what that might look like as you you know, you might have to get creative and and look for opportunities like where can I be sponsored to do this? Or, you know, can I go to my employer and ask for this support? And you would be surprised how often you know the answer is yes, but I really just think that it’s going to going to depend on the person And I I’m not actively doing career coaching now, because I’m focusing more on my keynote speaking and my writing working on my next book already. But you know, even when I was doing coaching, you know, I always strive to have my price point be in a place that it was accessible to most people, although at the same time, a little uncomfortable for them. And that was intentional, right? Because I feel like when we make an investment in ourself, and it’s an easy, yes, sometimes we don’t always follow through with the work. And when we make an investment in ourselves, and it’s a little a little bit uncomfortable, and it’s a little stretch, and we have to maybe make some sacrifices, I feel like there’s an energetic commitment to that process that can happen. So I really, as a coach, price my services in that range. And so you know, if you’re in that space, and you’re looking for external support, it might not be easy to find, but keep looking, because there are coaches like me that that are not $20,000 for three months of coaching, you know, kind of a thing if you can’t afford that. But also, you know, I was willing to work with clients, because I would never advise my clients to accept less money than they asked for when they were in a job search, for example, I would never accept, I would never reduce my fees for a client. But I did sometimes even get creative with clients. And I would say, Okay, what if we rework this package? What if we start here focusing on these key areas, and as you grow here, then we can, you know, come back later and revisit and maybe add on some of the other things that I still think are important and would like to include? And so, you know, again, I think it boils down to being curious to looking for those opportunities to asking for what you want, being willing to hear no, but more often than not, my experience suggests you hear yes and no. And to just continually, you know, say, Okay, I can’t do this, what can we do? So what else could this look like? Okay, you won’t send me to this training that I’m asking for? Is there a budget for training that I could no, and then I can try to find some programs that are within this budget, for example, right? So those kinds of things, and that involves, you know, getting help outside of yourself. But there’s a lot of ways that I think you can even just start where you’re at and do things like you know, here we are talking about how, you know, a lot of thought leaders, a lot of authors, a lot of speakers might be speaking from a place of privilege. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t any wisdom in the advice that they’re giving. And so can you go to the library, even and check out books, audio books, or physical books, and start expanding your perspective of what’s possible. And at the same time that you acknowledge that all the advice that you make here or read may not actually be for you. And if it’s not for you, that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you, or that you are flawed? It just means maybe that advice is not for me. So right, like, I think there’s different levels that we can, we can do that for ourselves, we can start where we are and do something.

Lisa Lewis Miller  28:15  

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it feels tricky, but not impossible to figure out the discretion of either like this advice and might be workable for me if I stretch myself and try something new and different, that feels like it’s still within my scope of reality, versus this advice is just not within my scope of reality right now. And, you know, maybe one day I will come back to this, or maybe you know, there’s someone else in my life for whom this would resonate. But this is just not something that’s available to me right now. But Chrysta, I actually want to ask, thinking that so many people who are part of the Career Clarity Show community are folks who are wanting to make a transition into something new. It can feel really vulnerable, and scary to put yourself into a job search, when you have kind of, shall we say, you know, in quotes, an imperfect background, that applying for a job doing something that you haven’t had professional paid experience doing before, but you feel like you’ve probably got 7080 or 90% of the transferable skills and capabilities to move into. It still feels scary to do the application process for and I’m curious, you know, knowing that when you have a non traditional background on paper, like for example, not going to college, it can be hard to get employers to take you seriously and hard for employers to truly see all the potential and all the capability that you can bring to the table. So I’m curious in a situation like that, again, where you can’t do anything right you can’t magically go back and erase 10 years of your work history and insert Do you know the perfect linear boring experiences that an employer might be looking for? But you can do something? What are the somethings that you’ve seen could be really helpful in getting an untraditional candidate to be taken more seriously and be in the consideration in the running for a role where they might be able to make a big impact?

Chrysta Bairre  30:20  

Yeah, I love, love, love this question. And I have so much to say about this. First off, I want to say in my experience, both when I was in HR and doing recruiting, as well as when I was doing coaching actively, is I just want to acknowledge for people that most of us will apply for the jobs, we think we can get, not the jobs we want. So I really invite all of your listeners to really start thinking about applying for jobs you want, not the job you think you can get on paper. The other piece of advice I want to give you is, you know, I’ve worked in HR for years, I worked in staffing for years. And I gotta tell you that a lot of job postings are not actually accurate representations of what the job entails. So don’t take those job postings too seriously. I mean, definitely read them, and speak to their requirements and speak to their desired skills and experience. But don’t feel like if you don’t match the job description exactly, don’t feel like, Oh, I can’t apply for this. Because in reality, that job posting is probably not really an accurate representation of the job itself. Anyway, that’s just it’s so very common, the job posting was written either by somebody who didn’t actually know what the job took day to day, or it’s old and outdated. Or, you know, you’re working for a company that has reorganized or restructured and the job is changed, but they repost the job without changing the, you know, the job posting. So you know, don’t feel too intimidated by the job posting. Because, you know, it’s not always going to be a real accurate representation of the job anyway. And another thing about the vulnerability piece is, so there was this internal report that was done at HP. And what this internal report said was that, on average, men will apply for jobs or promotions, when they meet only 60% of the posted qualifications. Whereas women most often will not apply for a job or promotion unless they meet 100% of the qualifications that are posted. And so I just want to tell all of your listeners to just, let’s just practice adopting the confidence of the average white man. Okay, can we just adopt the competence of the average white man for a day, and go ahead and apply for that job or apply for that promotion, even if you think you’re only 60% qualified. And, you know, men, the average white man does it all the time, we’ll listen, you have at least as much to offer as he does. So practice putting yourself out there and just going for it, because you never know what’s going to happen. And oftentimes, when you get into an interview process, you know, you, you will find out maybe that things are a little bit different. Or you have the opportunity to speak to how your relatable skills work, you know, like, here’s how I think I have experience in this and how it can apply to that. You know, and I used to work with my clients on doing that in your cover letter, right to hit on your cover letter, if you have related experience, but not exact experience to spell that out for them and what you think that might look like. But you know, again, don’t take that job posting as gospel because a lot of times it’s not going to be really 100% accurate anyway.

Lisa Lewis Miller  33:53  

Well, I think those are fabulous pieces of advice. Let’s assume that listener has had the confidence of the average white man to sit down a bunch of applications, but feels like because of their untraditional background, they’re not getting traction, they’re not getting opportunities to interview that, you know, they’re completely qualified in so many ways, but because they don’t have a degree or they don’t have the certification or they don’t have their, you know, their Sherm credential or whatever it is, they’re just not getting the calls back. But they have this quiet competence and this belief that they if given the opportunity, they’d absolutely be able to step into that and crush it. How do you help people get over some of the the classist biases that come into how candidates are being screened and how they’re being ranked for their potential to move into roles? Using kind of arbitrary and and classes measures like a university degree?

Chrysta Bairre  34:58  

Yeah, and you know, I have to tell you that my professional experience has been that I very rarely felt like not having a degree disqualified me from jobs most of the time. Even though I didn’t have a degree, even if they asked for a degree if I read a job posting, and I really felt like it was super lined and they said a degree was required, I still applied. And I did get some callbacks, not always, but sometimes I did. And I would just explain that I had equivalent experience, and I would explain what that experience was in my cover letter. So I don’t know that it’s really as much of a barrier as we might think that it is. And sometimes this feeling like I need another certification, I need a different degree. I think sometimes that’s a perception that we have, that’s not always really accurate as to why we’re not getting those callbacks. Right? And, and so that, I guess I would say, you know, keep going for it. And if you’re getting discouraged, I read, I don’t know if this, this statistic is still true, because I’m not actively coaching. But years ago, if you were in a job search, if you got a basically 3% response rate that was considered good. So 3% of you know, you got a response back from your resume, well, that’s a whole lot of resumes you’re sending out and not getting a response from right. So again, you also have to recognize that it’s kind of a numbers game, and keep that in perspective. So if you’ve applied for 10 jobs, and you’ve heard back from three, then you would be hitting that 3% response rate. But that may feel like but there’s seven that didn’t respond, and so it can feel discouraging. And you might start to speculate as to why why you’re not getting a response, well, I must not actually be qualified enough, or they’re not taking me seriously. But I don’t know that that’s always the case. So I can you know, it’s a numbers game, keep applying number one, and really keep putting things out there. don’t presume that you know why you’re not getting a response? Because you may not, it may not be for the reasons that you think, you know, especially in larger corporations, a lot of jobs, for example, you know, they intend to fill with an internal candidate, but they have a process that they have to put it out to the public. So you might feel like, well, I’m really qualified, why didn’t they call me back? Honestly, a lot of the times, it has nothing to do with their perception of you, or anything like that. I also worked at a company once that for EEOC reasons, every time a human being reviews a job application, there’s always the chance that person is going to have some kind of unconscious bias. And so I worked for a company once that basically their hiring process was out of all the applicants, they didn’t even actually consider every applicant, they considered first applicants that were referred internally by an employee. And then they went through those applicants. And then once they had gone through those applicants, if there wasn’t enough, if they didn’t find enough qualified people to hire, then they basically used like a keyword search. But every response wasn’t even personally reviewed by somebody. And so again, just you know, keeping in mind that it’s really a numbers game, and that it’s not necessarily that they don’t see your value. And it’s not necessarily that you need more certifications, or you, you know, are lacking in some way sometimes it’s just, the process sucks.

Lisa Lewis Miller  38:37  

Oh, totally.

Chrysta Bairre  38:38  

Yeah. So you know, try not to take it personally, it’s sometimes the process, but definitely referrals internally i think is is huge is a huge, huge helper. If you know somebody within the company that can recommend you for a job, that is always a great thing. And a little tip is you can go out on LinkedIn, and if there’s a company you want to work for, you can look at what employees have said they work at that company and see if you have any connections at that company, you might be surprised or see if you have any shared like any secondary connections with someone who works at that company. And then you might ask someone if you know someone who knows someone who works at that company, you might say hey, well you introduce me to this person. And then if they agree to do that, then you’re in direct contact with someone who works at that company. And you can be saying, you know, I’m really interested in this position. I’d love to learn more about the company you know, would you be willing to recommend me

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:32  

I love that because that and I, I think that the one of the things that is so tricky when you have an untraditional background is trying to work through both like what’s perception and what’s reality about the limitations and the kind of results that I’m seeing in my job search. So, Chrysta, I thought your advice of if you can create any kind of relationship and any sort of referral connection to do So is a great, a great way to mitigate against some of the things you might be afraid of, or some of the things you might be perceiving that you’re receiving as a cold applicant and a cold candidate. And I’ll go a step further to say to that, when I was writing my book, I got feedback, that the way that I was talking about the networking piece of it was was rooted in privilege. And I sat with that, and I thought, you know, I think that’s, that’s not wrong, that I have been really fortunate to have had a couple different experiences throughout my career where I was in groups, and started to build a network in ways that the worst sort of serendipitous, but but a lot of other people wouldn’t have access to. So Chrysta had to take what you were sharing and take it a step further, if you find yourself in a position where you hop on LinkedIn, and you do not have any connections at that organization, and you don’t even have any second degree connections, right? No friends of friends, there’s still ways that you can create those kinds of relationships for yourself. And don’t put the pressure on yourself that you got to do everything, right, anything one small action can be enough. So reaching out to somebody cold on LinkedIn, or noticing if they’re a part of any professional organizations that have meetings or meetups that you could be a part of, they’re still steps that you can take to create possibilities to augment your network, even if you didn’t have, you know, the privilege to already have the kind of warm connected network that you need to get into an opportunity the places you want to go.

Chrysta Bairre  41:37  

And I would say to in my experience, you know, personally hiring for positions for people that were working under me or with me, as well as in my experience, recruiting his his enthusiasm, and passion go a really long way, I would much rather hire somebody who truly wants the job I’m hiring for and is excited about that job, then to hire someone who on paper lines up as the exact perfect candidate, but is really like, they’re just filling, you know, seat warming, basically, you know, and it’s like, as an somebody who did hiring, I always would love to hear from those candidates who are really excited about the job. So don’t feel like when you’re applying for jobs, you know, you may be taking on sort of a professional voice and a professional persona, don’t think that that means you can’t express any excitement or passion for the job you’re applying for. You know, you can be professional and still excited. And tell them why you’re excited and talk about, you know, what aligns for you with the company, because I really feel for, for me personally, for some clients, I’ve worked with that that’s really gotten them in the door, and to a lot of opportunities that when your, your resume and your cover letter when it’s all very cold when it’s just facts, when it’s just like and then this and then this fact and then this fact, you know, nothing is standing out necessarily differentiating you from other candidates. But when you can share your true authentic excitement about the opportunity. That’s incredibly attractive to a lot of hiring managers.

Lisa Lewis Miller  43:14  

What an excellent Mic drop moment to wrap up our conversation today on crysta. For people who have been listening to this and who have been loving your wisdom and your perspective, where can they learn more about you? And where can they pick up your book?

Chrysta Bairre  43:30  

Yeah, thank you for asking. So my website is live and love work calm. And there you can find out more about me as a speaker, you can find out more about my book, you can find out more about my Women’s Leadership Group, she goes Hi. You can also order my book on Amazon. any major retailer that you prefer to shop at you should be able to order it there Barnes and Noble, calm whatever that looks like. or even what I really love is go to your local independent indie bookstore and ask them to special order it because I just love supporting small independent businesses.

Lisa Lewis Miller  44:05  

Love that. Well, Chrysta, thank you again for coming on the Career Clarity Show and for sharing so many good nuggets about how to equip yourself to take advantage of the opportunities that feel accessible, even if a little bit stretchy. And how to know that maybe you are not the problem, the advices

Chrysta Bairre  44:25  

Thank you so much, please, I really appreciate it.

Lisa Lewis Miller  44:35  

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