120: Accessibility in Coaching with Rebecca Fraser-Thill

Today’s episode of the podcast is with a dear coaching friend of mine – Rebecca Fraser-Thill. Rebecca is a Pivot certified career coach and a senior contributor for Forbes, where she covers the creation of meaning and purpose in work. 

We are going to talk about something that I think comes up often in the coaching world but that isn’t always talked about – accessibility in coaching. My guest and I can both tell you we have seen people have incredible, amazing transformational changes occur. However, coaching isn’t cheap. It is the kind of thing that is a big investment into yourself. And because of that, it can feel scary,  overwhelming, and it can feel financially impossible. 

Rebecca and I are both very committed to increasing accessibility and increasing the opportunity for everybody to get that kind of one on one intensive support, and accountability and making it available to as many people as humanly possible. 

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• Rebecca Fraser-Thill
• Forbes: How To Get Personalized Career Support – For Free
• LinkedIn: Rebecca Fraser-Thill
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04  

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host. And each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host, Lisa Miller. And I am delighted as always that you are with us today. Today’s episode of the podcast is with an old dear coaching friend of mine. And we are going to talk about something that I think comes up a lot in the coaching world. But that isn’t always talked about, which is the question of, if you are committed to getting some support with your personal and professional development, you want to do more than just read free articles online or get books from the library, you really want to double down on accountability, and having your your butt gently but lovingly kicked, and having someone really help you step into the next level of your awareness, your potential and your impact. seeking out a coach is a natural next step. And my guest and I can both tell you we have seen people have incredible, amazing transformational changes occur. And coaching ain’t cheap. It is the kind of thing that is a big investment into yourself. And because of that, it can feel scary, it can be overwhelming, and it can feel financially impossible. And it’s important to both acknowledge the reality that coaching is pricey. And it’s an investment and it takes some serious cash to make it happen in some cases. And that that may not necessarily make it impossible to access. Today’s guest and I are both very committed to increasing accessibility and increasing the opportunity for everybody to get that kind of one on one intensive support and care and loving butt kicking like I talked about, and making it available to as many people as humanly possible. So for today’s episode of the podcast, we’re going to talk about financially, how you can make that happen, and specifically how you can make it happen without necessarily having to use your own money. So if that sounds interesting to you on how to get coaching without having to pay for it out of your own pocket, then today’s episode of the podcast is definitely definitely for you. Now, let me tell you about my wonderful dear friend who is on the podcast with me today. Rebecca Frasier. So Rebecca is a pivot certified career coach and a senior contributor for Forbes, where she covers the creation of meaning and purpose in work. She taught Psychology at Bates College in Maine for 18 years, and led the creation of a set of developmental programming for undergrads called purposeful work. Her perspective has been shared in Business Insider, Bloomberg Businessweek, the Chicago Tribune, the New York Post, Dow Jones Market Watch and other outlets. Rebecca, welcome to the Career Clarity Show. Thanks so much for having me, Lisa. Well, I was so excited when you and I were chatting prior to today’s recording, about ways to help people get access to coaching without having to spend their own money. Because while it’s amazing to make an investment into coaching, coming out of your own pocket, if you’re capable and able and life has empowered you to do so. Not everybody’s in that situation. And the fact that you’ve identified some not necessarily sneaky ways, but some strategic ways to fund this kind of professional development without having to take it out of your own bank account. It’s such an important message to share with people and I’m so excited that you’re here. But I want to start our conversation today with what what led you to this discovery? Why were you thinking about ways to fund professional development strategically?

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  4:27  

Excellent question. So like you said, Lisa, I mean, accessibility really matters. And coaching can cost a good amount of money. And I often get questions around how can I How can I do this differently? How can I get in coaching without having to pay out of pocket and I noticed a trend especially since the pandemic started, where more and more of my clients are reaching out saying, oh, would you mind billing my organization? And I started to say, Oh, this is a new thing in the past. It was always people who were just paying out of pocket, but individuals were starting to recognize That the professional development funds, which we used to use for things like conferences, but as conferences dried up, and they went virtual and weren’t as effective. Many people said, Are there other ways to use that money that my organization is saying is available to me every year. And they started to recognize that coaching was one of the great ways to do that. And I felt wonderful billing organizations and knowing that I was going to be empowering people, and not adding the stress of that financial hook that goes along with coaching. So it felt like such a win win. And I started to say, I wonder how many people have access to these funds and don’t recognize that they actually do?

Lisa Lewis Miller  5:43  

Well, I think that is the key question that we can start with today. Which is, I imagine there’s at least one person listening to this podcast today who’s saying professional development funds, what professional development funds? So share a little bit more about that? What are these? Where might you find them? How are individuals making the discovery that there’s a secret stash of cash available?

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  6:10  

Absolutely. So often, it’s there for the asking. So when you start looking around about what are professional development funds to pay are a pot of money that sometimes is allocated for each individual, they usually range somewhere between 1005 $1,000 per individual, but certainly varies by organization and type of organization. But those, they’re sitting there for you to use for any way that’s going to help you develop professionally. And some organizations have a pot that’s just for the whole organization. And it’s first come first serve. So getting it early in the fiscal year is important because they could run out by the end, of course, and others it’s, it’s yours as long as you document and ask for it. Now, certainly some organizations don’t have it at all. And I have a couple of clients who advocated for themselves to have funding. So even if it’s not a functional programming program in your organization, it doesn’t mean that that’s a non starter. And those are all things we can talk about. But the starting point is to say, literally just look, talk to your HR department or talk to your supervisor, or even just ask around Has anybody ever used professional development funds, and you’ll start to learn what’s actually available, you may be surprised just literally sitting there for the taking.

Lisa Lewis Miller  7:32  

Well, Rebecca, you’re already highlighting a couple really important pieces, one of them being knowing when your company’s fiscal year resets. Yeah, and when budgeting cycles are happening can be really, really important to find out how much money is available to get access to it. Or the next thing that you talked about, advocate to get something added. I love that. One of the first things that you’re sharing with us today is talking about how to stand up for yourself and what you need to be able to thrive within an organization and make the case for professional development money. Because I can imagine there’s somebody who is listening to this episode of the podcast and who heard the beginning and said like, well, cool, that’s probably great for companies that have money coming out of their ears like Google, but at my nonprofit, or at my university, or at my small business, there’s nothing available. So I want to dig a little bit more deeply into that piece. If someone wants to make the case that they should get access to professional development funds, or that Professional Development Fund should exist, even maybe we start there at that premise. What are some of the ways that you’ve seen people successfully make that case? 

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  8:50  

Oh, great question. And and I’ll start out by saying that, it may be counterintuitive, but all of my clients who are using professional development funds, currently are all from nonprofits. They all work at nonprofits. So there’s something to explore there too, that there’s actually like a perception of where is this funding and and then where people are actually accessing it, which is fascinating. So we can go there as well. But so if you really search out and there is nothing available, then making that case is all about figuring out, what’s the return on investment for my organization, why does this matter? And really thinking through, okay, if I’m getting coaching, how well that better what I’m doing for my organization, whatever that organization happened to be, and the more you can put real numbers and concrete takeaways from that and be able to talk to your supervisor and or your human resource department and be able to say, you know what, through coaching, we know that there’s data out there that people become more efficient in their work, they become more engaged. In their work, which results in less turnover, which turnovers really expensive for companies and any organization, right, that people are going to be more effective and productive. So they’re going to do more work in less time, right? The interactions between coworkers improved through coaching as well, which results in an environment where everyone’s happier. And that’s going to help with retention, not just for the person getting coached. But for their co workers. The number one reason that I hear people moving on is that they don’t like their co workers and or they don’t like their supervisor. So if you can make changes on that, as in our personal pieces, which we certainly do through coaching, that’s going to be a big win for the organization, too. So you can make an amazing case for, hey, I’m going to be more effective, I’m going to be more efficient, I’m going to work better with others, I’m going to be less of a flight risk. So you can retain me longer, who’s going to say no to that, that’s well worth a chunk of money to get that happening. And you can search around and look at all the data that’s out there about how coaching works and how effective it is.

Lisa Lewis Miller  11:14  

And I’ll add to that to say that you might run into some pushback from folks within your organization, saying like, Well, why can’t you do that with us? Like, why can’t you just, you know, create a deeper relationship with your supervisor, why can’t you pick a mentor within the organization. And I feel like some of the reasons to seek out coaching support are because of the lack of a tie to your organization, to be able to give you some external objective perspective, to help you to step out of the day to day politics in the day to day reality of a situation to think about more creative problem solving for some of the issues that you’re facing. And to to be a sounding board that feels safe, unbiased, and doesn’t have a conflict of interests. Because that is one of the trickiest things as you’re trying to grow and develop as a leader within an organization is that when you are limiting the perspective that you’re getting in terms of mentorship and advice to just the people within your organization, you’re usually going to be limited to hearing the types of answers that are really resonant with what the organization has always done or always thought or always been. And sometimes, especially for people who are top performers, rising managers and leaders, and people who care a lot about growth and development. Sometimes sourcing information on a totally different way to do things can be incredibly powerful and transformative for the organization as a whole in ways that are fundamentally impossible to accomplish. If you’re limiting the scope of your expertise and your experience to just the individuals who are currently within the company. 

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  13:03  

I couldn’t agree more. And there’s a real skill set to write like you we can be wonderful mentors, just because we have a sense of Oh, here’s where I’ve been. And here’s how I’m going to support somebody. But coaching is a different skill set than that, right. And I think that’s often overlooked as well. It’s like this is not pure mentorship, this isn’t giving advice. This is really helping somebody understand themselves, and find their own best way forward. Which if you find the perfect mentor, maybe they can do that. But I find that most mentors speak from their own experience. They’re not helping you understand yourself and hear yourself and move forward more competently, with your own strengths in mind.

Lisa Lewis Miller  13:45  

Absolutely. Well, Rebecca, you said something earlier in our conversation that I want to come back to around digging around to find the professional development funds, because we’ve covered what happens if you’ve dug around, look everywhere, and they just don’t exist, right? It’s a concept that has never been mentioned in any employee handbook. There’s no documentation around this. But if someone is listening to this and thinking, Hmm, I wonder if there’s professional development money at my organization, where some of the places you’d encourage them to start sleuthing to find it.

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  14:20  

Great question. So we in the coaching world, we’re big believers in the power of the network, right? talking to people is usually your number one source of data. And that holds here as well. That talking to your co workers is by far going to be the best source of like, Oh, yeah, I did that five years ago. I went ahead and use the money and and see what money How did you even get this? Who do I talk to about this? So you start to hear where are the inner channels even if it’s not written in some handbook that you might be able to put your hands on. So find out who to talk to and if you have Human Resources departments are a great place to go. But if there really doesn’t exist in your organization will then who’s the person? Who does something related to employee benefits? Or is at least thinking about how to support people within your organization? If it’s very small, but usually it’s it’s talking to other people. And and if you just say professional development funds, they might be like, Oh, I don’t know, we don’t have that. But if you say things like, do you ever use money for conference travel? Did you ever use money to take some classes online? So they might not be terming? It professional development funds? But if the answer is yes, then there’s some money somewhere sitting around, or at least there is a precedent for using some money. And like I said, people tend to box it in there, even from me, I didn’t think of coaching in that way. A number of years ago, I was in at the beach with a friend, a family friend, and her husband said, Oh, you do coaching? always like, Yeah, well, he was an educational leader. So he had moved up to principal status. And he’s like, Oh, I used all my professional development funds for a few years for coaching. And I that was the first moment that I was like, fashionable development funds. Oh, yes. Wow. Because we put it in a box. So talking the language that some people are the box are using, which tends to be conferences and classes, and then see, can I use it for coaching which we could make a really strong case could be much more impactful than those conferences where certainly you can make some connections. And you can learn some interesting things. But I don’t know about you, I usually take some notes and then file them away somewhere, and forget about it. But with coaching, it’s like there’s accountability built in, there’s that that actions that you’re taking in between, there’s true practice to it. So I know that I grow much faster with a person individualized, doing some individualized planning with me, than I do through some kind of set of classes or conference. So, so think, talk to people and use a variety of ways of talking about what you’re looking for, so that you can really start to tap into what’s possible.

Lisa Lewis Miller  17:13  

I love that. And I think that, you know, you can absolutely look at an employee handbook or an employee intranet, or if you have your onboarding paperwork from when you first started at the organization, there very well may be a mention of funding, or grants or whatever it is to support professional development. But Rebecca, I think one of the things that’s so important about what you’re saying with networking is that a lot of times the company’s policy on paper is not the same as the policy, once you start making some special or particular one off requests, they may have to have something documented that every employee gets, I don’t know, $250 professional development money per year. But so many organizations have the leeway and the flexibility that if you make the case to say, here’s this thing that I think would be beneficial to me and to my team in these ways. And here’s the cost. A lot of organizations can find a way to make that money up here, even if it’s above and beyond what a stated policy might be.

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  18:22  

Absolutely. And like I said, a lot of nonprofits can, you know, we think that’s not where the money is going to be. But as one of my clients when I’m, when I said to her, I’m seeing this trend, and it’s all these nonprofits that are, and I work with a lot of people at large companies like large, wealthy, you know, they have tons of money, and my clients are paying out of pocket from those. And then I was like, what’s going on? Why? Why am I paying my clients who are being paid less in salary, the ones that I’m able to build their organization and one of my clients when I said that, she said, Well, it’s because they don’t pay as well. So the way they attract us, and retain us is by saying, but you can grow, you can grow here. And the you can grow here is we’ll put some money behind that, and try to support you in a variety of ways we can’t up your salary, we cannot increase your benefits. But we can offer this element of compensation. And the other thing to look for is often that’s a strategy to draw you into a role. So there’s many organizations that offer entry level professional development funds, or we’ll say when you’re first coming in sure you get this for the first year. But if it’s existing for entry level or for your first year on the job, that means there’s some wiggle room to probably talk about. If you see value in this for the beginning, why don’t you see the value once I’m in the role for a couple of years or I’m not in an entry level position you’ve got there’s a crack in the door there. If they are funding anybody at any stage where you can really make Make an even stronger case.

Lisa Lewis Miller  20:02  

And such a great point. And I think that especially if you in your role are in an inflection point, like you have just gotten a promotion, or your team has been reorg, or you’re managing individuals for the first time, or you’re managing departments for the first time, there are so many moments where an organization’s asking more of you, asking you to step into a bigger role and into bigger shoes, that are such natural moments to get some extra support. Because that, Rebecca, to your point, when people talk about leaving their organizations, it’s not usually because they hate the organization, it’s usually because they ran into a challenge for growth and development and happiness with a supervisor, like a boss. And so often that happens, because we promote people without equipping them with the tools and the resources to grow into their role successfully, and to be able to really embrace that role holistically. So, especially if you are in a position where you are getting promoted to manage or lead more people, that’s exactly the time to be seeking out professional development funding to get some additional support. So that you don’t become the reason that attrition is happening within your organization.

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  21:23  

Yes, and it really speaks to the point of when you’re negotiating your new package, if it’s part of a promotion. So many people just think about the title change, or maybe they think about a salary change. But this is the moment to to say, and I want $6,000 a year set aside for my professional development that I can choose how I use it, right, like, that’s your time to ask when you’re changing jobs, or you’re being promoted, you’ve got real leverage in that moment, because they want you. And so and especially in today’s job market, where you, the people who are getting hired or promoted are the people who have the upper hand right now. So ask for that, get it in writing. And then it’s going to be a recurring opportunity around the fiscal cycle, which is important because a number of my clients are thoughtful about saying, you know what, I’m going to start coaching near the end of the fiscal year, use up all my money from that one New Year’s allocation and then continue my coaching in the next fiscal year, so that they get a nice long, continuous stretch of coaching, that that goes on either straddles either side, and uses up all their money in a really thoughtful way.

Lisa Lewis Miller  22:33  

I love that as a strategy. And that one thing that that that reflection is making me think about when we talk about having a long uninterrupted period of getting coaching support is a question around goal setting. Because you and I both do a style of coaching that is intended to help people make changes. It’s not necessarily intended to help someone find a way to suck it up and deal and just be happy and put your head down and do the work for the next 2030 years in your existing organization or role. So when you’re talking about setting goals for coaching with individuals, especially folks who are using money from a professional development budget, how do how do you talk to your prospective or current clients about that? And then how did they talk to their organization?

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  23:26  

Great question. Absolutely. So I I’m a huge believer in something called job crafting, which you probably have heard of, and the research on job crafting is really strong in what job crafting is, is that within, we can find a lot of joy and engagement within our existing roles. And perhaps even more so than making a massive change and changing jobs or even changing careers. If we make changes to our, our cognitions, which is our thinking about our work, we’ve made changes to our relationships within our work, and we make some changes to our tasks. So I’m a huge believer that the first change that anybody should be working on barring being in a very toxic environment or knowing like the work is completely a bad bit, which certainly occurs. But if you’re kind of in that, I’m not sure which a lot of my clients come to me in that I’m not sure I don’t know something’s off, I might just need to change jobs or might need to change careers. I say, let’s first try job crafting. And especially for the people using professional development funds. I feel like they’re using organizational money, I want to really make sure that this is not a good fit. So how do we set goals around the cognitive, the task and the relational crafting, and really break down? What would that look like for them? And then how do we prototype ways to do each of those types of crafting, and then try to implement the ones that work the best through our prototype so that they can really start to grow within that role. And then if they decide to leave, which some of them end up deciding to, they know they gave it their all, they’re like, I tried everything here to make it work, I really exhausted the list of the ways we can job craft, and it’s still not going to be a fit. They walk away feeling really great about making a change, whatever that change might be, whether it’s just a job change, or a big career change. So, in terms of goal setting, it really is using the job crafting language and thinking through what are those different types of crafting look like and very specific to the person situation, because sometimes, you don’t have the room to change your tasks. Or you don’t have many relationships, like you’re in a very small organization, and you’re working with just one or two people. So that can be a big ask. So you have to think about what’s it look like for the situation, but we can set really specific goals, and we do around those. So that the coaching is about let’s tick through what’s it look like to change these elements or attempt to change these elements and see how collect some data about whether it’s working or not?

Lisa Lewis Miller  26:10  

Oh, my gosh, Rebecca, I, one of the things I think I hear the most, is this wondering of is it me? Or is it the job? And so framing it up in terms of job crafting? And doing a comprehensive audit of what would feel good? What would allow for you to feel engaged and energized? And then using that as a jumping off platform to say, how might it be possible to create that? Is it easy, medium or hard to create that within your current role? Is it easy, medium or hard to create that within your current organization, that kind of a process can could so just like you said, Take the guilt, and the shame and the worry and the fear and the Wonder off of someone shoulders about have I left any stones unturned? Have I done everything in my power to ensure that if this can be a good fit, I’m finding the way towards that. So I think that job crafting is something that, frankly, every organization ought to be encouraging and supporting every employee in doing to make sure that the organization is both optimizing for the value they can get from their employees, but the employees are optimizing for the amount of happiness they can get from the work.

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  27:31  

Yes, and the number of clients I’ve had, who have reached out and said, Oh, I’m gonna leave, and then we start doing the job crafting, and they say, Oh, I don’t have to leave, like actually three years elements of this organization that I really love. And wow, I could keep those and get the other pieces too. And I mean, I think one of my clients who has really came and said, You know, I want to do a completely different type of work are completely different than what I’m doing. I’m doing project management, I want to be a data scientist. And it was like, I there’s no way I can do that. Here, like I’m gonna have to leave, I’m going to go do graduate work I’m going to, and when we actually slowed down and started talking about the job crafting, and what do you really need to do to make that transition and, and he started task crafting. So taking on some voluntary roles, doing a little bit of data science, learning it on the side. And now his title just recently read to me a couple of weeks ago, his title has officially changed to data scientist, it took almost three years, but he’s with the same organization and they have gotten so much benefit, I have no doubt from that change that he made internally. And that was all the result of a coaching relationship where we were able to really think about, do you actually like where you are? Do you want to leave? No, I don’t want to leave I like I like everything about it, but I’m doing the wrong job within it. Well, he made it work, which is really and that is one example specific example. But I’ve seen a number of people make some really powerful internal changes that have resulted in happiness and fulfillment. And in many ways a deeper engagement. Mostly my own story is like 18 years of the college I never expected to be 18 years anywhere. I’m a Gemini I expected to be the person who was everywhere like I’m so but 18 years because I crafted within that role. I wasn’t just teaching and teaching the same things. I was doing some administration, I was testing different sides of myself and skill sets out within this college and trying out different ways of teaching and trying out different classes. And it’s by doing that I got more fulfillment out of the role than if I had rolled off after four years which I was initially planning to do. So I’m a living embodiment. have what it means to like Ring, ring all the goodness you can out of where you are, because there’s some safety and security and some real possibility because you’ve built so many relationships where you can do things like say, hey, I want professional development funds, I’ve been a great employee for all this time, don’t I earn that. And that’s something you don’t necessarily get when you’re brand new somewhere. So. So I think there’s a lot to be said, for how you can make that case that you’re going to job craft with your coaching, and that may really benefit the organization, and you’ll be much less likely to leave.

Lisa Lewis Miller  30:40  

Rebecca, the two things that stand out about you sharing those stories are number one, when you decide that your happiness is worth doing something about, there are a lot of tools in your toolbox with coaching and job crafting and possibilities to really take responsibility and take ownership for your lived experience of your work, your team, your environment, all of that. And there’s got to be a certain amount of belief in yourself and willingness to advocate for yourself. that underlies that. And that part feels really important and worth highlighting. But the other thing that’s that’s occurring to me as I’m hearing you share these stories is that it’s really powerful for managers and leaders to encourage possibilities, encourage job crafting, to be really supportive of coaching. So that not all that pressure falls onto their shoulders to figure out okay, well, what’s going to make Rebecca happy? How do I keep Rebecca for an additional 14 years besides her intended tenure here, and it to me underlines the importance of managers and leaders within organizations, also intentionally seeking out coaching and support in taking some of the responsibility and pressure off of their own shoulders to advocate for someone’s career pathing, but also to enable and empower them to feel like there are more possibilities and more paths forward for themselves to explore that you’re allowed to lean into what feels good for you at work. Absolutely,

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  32:27  

I think you’re you’re highlighting some really important points. And for us all to recognize that, that we often have that grass is greener philosophy in our society. And there’s something to be said for how do I cultivate the grass where I’m living, right? Like, where right where I am, the research on meaning and purpose is pretty clear that it’s not having a sense of meaning and purpose, which are really fundamental to our sense of engagement and joy, are, they’re not out there somewhere, we’re not going to go find them somewhere else, we create them like that, we create meaning we create purpose. And so coaching is a great vehicle through which we learn how to create that, right where we are, right in the circumstances in which we find ourselves because some people can’t make a job change, they can’t leave what they’ve got, they need that that setup, that commuting distance, and they need the benefits that go along with it. And, and so the professional development funding can really support them in making the most of the role that they they have. And like you said, managers can have that opportunity to like feel like it’s not all on them that there’s somebody else that supporting that process.

Lisa Lewis Miller  33:44  

Absolutely. And to bring us in for a close for today’s conversation, I think that the punch line of all of this is that you deserve to feel good at work. And if you don’t feel good, there are tons of options and possibilities for seeking out professional development funds and getting coaching and job crafting and whatnot. That if you acknowledge that you don’t feel the way that you want to feel, and you give yourself permission to be allowed to be happy at work, to be engaged, to enjoy what you’re doing. The opportunities for problem solving to make things feel better, whether it’s within your current role, whether it’s in a new role in your organization, or whether it is spreading your wings and going somewhere new. There’s so many different possibilities for how you can take action to make things feel the way you want them to feel. So any last thoughts on that Rebecca? Yeah,

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  34:44  

I think and I think what we’re talking about is that sometimes we have assumptions around the constraints that we’re operating within that are not actual right. So at examine the constraints if your your constraint is, oh, I need to change jobs in order to be happy. It is examine that. If the constraint is, I have no money to pay for coaching. So I can never have that examine that constraint, right? Like that is likely it may not be real, or maybe it is real currently. But you can make a case and as long as you have the patience to wait for the next budget cycle, so that it can be worked in and written in and you are willing to be assertive and proactive, keep asking more than once you know, every time you’ve got your review moment, say, so what’s happening with those professional development funds? Is any any progress on that? How can we make this happen? And this bit, this next budget? Keep asking, because that’s not an actual finances are not the constraint to getting coaching in the way that we might think that they are so so ask around,

Lisa Lewis Miller  35:50  

make it happen. And be persistent? Absolutely. No, is not a final No, not at all. Well, Rebecca, for people who have been listening to this episode of the podcast, and have been loving your perspective, and who are curious to learn more about the work that you do and the writing that you do, where can they learn more?

Rebecca Fraser-Thill  36:11  

Absolutely. So the best place is to go to my website, it’s Rebecca, f, t. So it’s just the first two initials of my name, Rebecca f t, calm, and I’m writing a whole series about professional development for Forbes. So that’s coming out as well. So you can read up on some of this. And I hope to hear from some of you.

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:33  

Oh, Rebecca, it was such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you for coming and sharing your brilliance. And for anybody who is listening to this, it’s time to start doing some digging around to find out exactly how much money your organization might have in store to help you perform at your best.

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally find the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to get Career Clarity Show comm slash book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at get Career Clarity Show comm slash podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.