149: Rewriting Your Narrative with Emily Jackson

Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show! I’m one of your Career Clarity Show hosts, Jenn Smith. If you’re a listener who struggles to shake narratives about who you are, what you have access to and what you’re worthy of, then this episode is for you. This is an incredibly compelling topic about the power of reframing your mindset to reclaim your present and future career path. 

I’m so excited to be here with Emily Jackson. Emily is a career counselor and educator specializing in working with young adults experiencing professional, academic and cultural transitions. Her mission is to harness her client’s strength and resilience and empower them with the competence and skills to realize their professional goals. 

Show Notes:

• Emily Jackson
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career.

Jenn Smith  0:31  

Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host Career Clarity Show coach Jenn Smith. If you’re a listener who struggles with the incredibly hard to shake narratives about who you are, what you have access to and what you’re worthy of, then this episode is for you. This is an incredibly compelling topic about the power of reframing your mindset to reclaim your present and future career path. I’m so excited to be here today with Emily Jackson. Emily is a career counselor and educator specializing in working with young adults experiencing professional, academic and cultural transitions. Her mission is to harness her client’s strength and resilience and empower them with the competence and skills to realize their professional goals. Emily has a master’s degree in career counseling and teaches at San Francisco State University’s counseling department where she hopes to inspire the next generation of counselors in Career College in clinical counseling fields. Emily’s interests include career development, and educational equity for historically marginalized communities with a particular focus on empowering women and girls. She is committed to helping individuals overcome uncertainty, embrace their power and find their path. Emily, welcome to the show. And thank you so much for having me. I’m so delighted to be here. Yes, and what a powerful mission you are on. So I would love to hear how this came about for you and why this work is so important to you. 

Emily Jackson  2:14  

Absolutely. So, you know, I come from a family of counselors actually. And I’ve always been a helper, I’ve always been really motivated by what I can do to help others reach their fullest potential and live most expansively. But in college, and after I graduated, I really had no idea how to be helpful to others, right? Like so many folks, I was a humanities major, and I didn’t really know how to translate my skills and knowledge that I’d gained in my art history degree into meaningful work. So I experienced a lot of doubt about my purpose. And I tried out several different roles, including, you know, teaching kids and doing operations, project coordination, but they just didn’t, they didn’t really stick I wasn’t fulfilled. And then I happened to get an opportunity to intern for a nonprofit that supports refugee communities. And through that opportunity, I was able to launch a workshop for refugee girls really focused on empowerment and career exploration. And in that program, we recruited professional women from various career sectors to serve as mentors and to share their professional journey to help empower these young women. And what really struck me in that experience is that every one that we engaged through that program, the refugee participants, the mentors, the program assistants, the program interpreters, everyone was navigating their own career related challenge in some form or another, right. And so the takeaway from that, for me was really twofold. First, it reinforced me that everyone, especially those who have experienced hardship, and trauma, deserve support with their career journey. And second, it was a reminder that even those we might perceive as having it all figured out professionally, are often navigating their own internal struggles. So it just made me realize that work and career are near universal experiences. Everyone has to make decisions about what type of work they want or need to do. And I think there’s this myth that career is somehow separate or siloed from other parts of our lives. But in reality career is life, right career and work impacts and is impacted by all other aspects of our identity and experience. And career experiences can also be a super significant factor in our overall health and well being. So that was it. That experience really clarified it for me, I knew that I wanted to help people navigate these really important decisions about their careers. I wanted to help people overcome that uncertainty and clarify their goals and take meaningful steps towards achieving them. And I am particularly passionate about supporting individuals who have experienced hardship and oppression and really help them draw upon their strengths to achieve their goals. So that was really the motivating factor for me and getting into this work.

Jenn Smith  5:03  

Ah, so powerful, you are speaking my language, my friend, I am all about aligning the whole being here. That’s really what makes, you know, career and life so much more fulfilling. And I love your personal story to around, you know, not knowing what you wanted, when you were in college, like most of us have no idea, you know, and now you’re in a place to actually support people, you know, through those really hard decisions at an early age or who have gone through, really, you know, hard transitions. And so that’s such a powerful way I feel like to give back. 

Emily Jackson  5:39  

Yeah, and I just want to like, validate that it’s such a common experience, right, that facing that uncertainty and going through those transitions is a natural part of the process. And I think we can often feel so isolated and that experience. And so like, biggest message is you are not alone in that we’re all going through that in some form or another. This is so true. And I always say to that someday, someday, you will look back and see how it all happened just the way that it was intended. But when you’re going through it, it’s just very difficult to see that. So totally, absolutely. Yeah. 

Jenn Smith  6:15  

Excellent. Well, to kick us off, I’d love for you. Just to talk a little bit more about what you mean by reframing. We hear this a lot. And I think sometimes people are just so caught up in their own narratives or their own stories, that they don’t realize they can take a step back from that narrative and reframe it, or they just don’t even know that it’s an option, because our minds are so powerful. So do you mind sharing a little bit more about that? 

Emily Jackson  6:42  

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we all hold beliefs about who we are and what we’re capable of, and what we should be doing. And we start developing these beliefs about ourselves and our value or our capacity when we’re super young. So often, by the time we’re adults, these beliefs, these thoughts start to feel like a truth. So for example, I’m not good at math, I could never work with data, right? These thoughts might feel like truths to us, because we’ve been telling ourselves those stories for a really long time. But in reality, they are just stories we learned them, which means that we can unlearn them as well. And we learn we learn these stories about ourselves from so many different places, right? Maybe we learn these stories from our culture. So I’m a woman, so I should be in a nurturing profession might be a story that I tell myself, or maybe we’ve learned them from our parents write a story, like being a doctor is the most honorable profession that might be coming from our families. Or maybe we created these stories for ourselves, and we’ve just really latched on to them. But these stories, these narratives about who we are and what we’re capable of. And what we’re meant to do, are really just stories and we have the power and the opportunity to tell different stories about who we are, and to craft a different narrative that generates new pathways and opportunities. So that’s really what I mean by reframing a narrative, we’re pushing ourselves to a new story to tell a new story about who we are, what’s possible for us, both personally and professionally. And, you know, I totally want to acknowledge that reframing a narrative might not magically get us that dream job. But we certainly aren’t going to get that dream job by sticking to the narrative that we’re somehow not capable or not worthy of that position. So reframing career narratives is about telling a story that enables us to see and experience new possibilities. And we all have the power to change the way we think about our experiences, and changing the way we think often changes how we actually live our lives.

Jenn Smith  8:47  

Yeah, it’s so true. And I always say words, matter, words have so much power. Even if we’re not saying them out loud, the words that are going through our brains and telling us those stories are so powerful, you have to recognize that and then change that narrative and change that story. I like your examples in there, too, about math. And it made me think, you know, the story, I’ve always told myself as I’m a terrible test taker, you know, and so it’s like, I have to kind of, and it held me back from a lot of things, you know, and so then it’s like, you have to kind of reframe that and tell yourself a different story and kind of get get by that hurdle. And we all have them from a very early age. And so I love your examples and kind of just sharing a little bit more about what that means. And I think to a big piece is noticing it. So like once you, you know, you’re noticing what the story in the narrative is, then you have the power to change the words and change the narrative. But the first part is noticing it. And that’s really where I love this conversation, where we’re going to talk about some of these common stories and narratives that we tell ourselves and hopefully brings a little bit of awareness to folks that they do have the power to reframe that. Yeah, it can really feel like these stories are happening too. to us. And it’s important that we acknowledge that we notice what the stories are and acknowledge the ways that we’re contributing to those stories. And we do have the power to shift that to tell a new narrative. Yes, yes, I’m excited to talk through a couple of these. So Emily pulled together a handful of the most common stories we tell ourselves when we’re experiencing a career transition. So I’m excited to chat through these. And before we hit record, I was telling her that I literally just got off a client call where I think majority of these stories came up in the conversation. So these are very real. And they happen on a daily basis in the career world. So Emily, the first one you have here is a big one. So if I’m not qualified for the job I want, I don’t have the right skills, the right degree, the right experiences, or the right connections. So talk to us about this story.

Emily Jackson  10:53  

Yeah, right. So it’s so common that we tell ourselves this story that if we don’t have the exact qualifications in the job description, or we haven’t done that exact type of work before, we don’t have the right connections, there’s no way we can get that job. So for example, one of my clients had experienced pretty significant health issues for a bunch of her 20s. So she didn’t have a lot of traditional employment experience on her resume. She actually had a lot of clarity about the types of jobs she was excited to pursue now that her health had stabilized. But the story she was telling herself was that there was no way that she could get those jobs because she didn’t have any work experience in that sector. Right. And yeah, maybe she didn’t have the exact experience that was listed on the job description. But that narrative, she was telling herself, totally invalidated all the valuable experience and expertise that she actually does bring to that role, like the experience gained through the illness that she navigated overcoming that serious illness, all the resilience and strength and clarity that she gained through that experience, as well as lots of volunteer experiences that she’d also had that gave her really strong transferable skills. The story that she was telling herself was so powerful that she was hesitant to even apply for positions, because she was telling herself there was no way she was going to get it, why would she even why would she even pursue that opportunity. So the way that we worked to reframe that was to help her feel more connected to her strengths, skills and internal resources, so that she could tell a different story, one that says I overcame immense hardship and suffering, and I know that I am capable of doing the job that I want, even if I don’t meet the exact qualifications on the job description, right? That shift alone of starting from a strengths based perspective of this is what I know I bring to this work, I know I am capable of doing this job, the fact that they have a very specific job description does not mean I cannot do what this job is all about. And from there, from that point of strength and confidence, we were then able to really strategize what she can do to move towards achieving those those positions. So for her that looked like doing a lot of informational interviews with folks doing that kind of work, being really open to actually applying to positions and practicing the interview process to build her confidence, even if she might not get the job opportunity, right. So I think for this, it’s really important when when we feel like we’re stuck in this idea that we’re not qualified, there’s no way we can get it, we have to remind ourselves that we have so many strengths and internal resources, and we can choose to really embrace those, it might not be an automatic Yes, for that position. But again, we’re certainly not going to get that position if we’re not coming at it from a sense of grounded strength and confidence. 

Jenn Smith  13:54  

Yes, I love that. And that’s definitely one of the pillars and Career Clarity Show that we talk a lot about is leveraging your strengths, you know that you actually enjoy doing it to do more of that in a new role. And the other piece that I wanted to mention too, is around this, you know, the job description, I probably hear this every single day that people are fearful for even applying to the job because they don’t meet every single bullet on that job description. And I am here to tell you that job descriptions if they’re well written, which is a big F true, are written for the perfect human and trust me, there is no perfect human out there that’s going to meet every single one of those qualifications. And if they are as a hiring manager, which I’ve been in many times in my career, I don’t want someone that’s been there done that I want someone that’s going to grow into the role because if not, they’re going to be bored in six months and then you know, be off trying to find another job and I’m gonna be back filling this role again. So I want someone that’s going to stretch into, you know, into the role so, so I love that that you that you mentioned that. I think it’s a big one that holds people back first 

Emily Jackson  14:59  

Yeah, I think that’s really spot on. And it’s a tip. Yeah, you said, it’s a total myth that we have to have exactly the qualifications that are on the job description. And we have to trust that we’re bringing a lot of strengths and a lot of expertise into these positions. And that, in fact, if we’re coming at it from a different perspective, we may be bringing even more value to that workplace. So it’s really about being able to have a lot of clarity around what our strengths and skills are. And then we can do some work convincing folks that we’re gonna bring this new perspective, this new lens into their workplace. 

Jenn Smith  15:33  

Yeah, I love that. And the other piece around that, I’ll just give one more example. So I can see that happening, definitely, with early career folks, as well as experience. So I just worked with somebody who literally has 20 years of marketing leadership experience, they were a pioneer in the whole corporate branding world. And they’re telling me that they don’t have the technical marketing skills to make a career change. Yes, the world of marketing has changed. It has become much more digital, all the things, but you have 20 years of writing experience, and you are a pioneer and bringing this new thing to the table that is now what companies are living off of, you know, so it’s just amazing. Amazing to hear these things from folks. 

Emily Jackson  16:17  

Yeah, I had I had one of my clients was really wanting a more educational position. It wasn’t a pure classroom teacher, but it was an educator role. And she was like, Well, I just don’t have the experience. And we really thought about it and know she has 10 plus years of teaching experience, just in non traditional ways. She’s been a facilitator, she’s been a coach, she’s worked in summer camps, she actually has this immense portfolio of teaching experience that she can speak to, it’s just non traditional, right? It’s not what we think of as fitting the bounds of what teaching should look like. So part of this is just getting really creative and thinking expansively about the strengths that we do have. 

Jenn Smith  16:55  

educating others is such a broad is such a broad skill, you know, and so thinking of it just not incident in the classroom sense, there’s so many other ways to educate. So I love that you brought that up, because I feel like that is also a reoccurring conversation. Totally. Yeah. So the second one, here is another big one. So this is this, one decision that I make in my career will dictate my entire future career. Oh, I mean, the pressure. So heavy.

Emily Jackson  17:25  

Yeah. And you know, as humans, we tend to operate on a binary, right? Like that is our tendency, that’s often our comfort zone of it’s either the job that I’m in forever, or the next job I choose forever. And it’s really hard to break out of that. So for example, one of my clients works in customer support for a tech company, she’s in her mid 20s. And she’s really ready for a change. She’s done with customer support. But she doesn’t exactly know what the next career goal is. And she’s telling herself this story that whatever the next move she makes, is going to be a lifelong commitment to that path. If she takes another job in tech, she’s going to be in tech forever. It’s just so easy for us to feel like the next move we make is locking us into a decision forever, and that we’re ultimately going to be trapped. And one way to reframe that is to remember that and acknowledge that change is constant and inevitable whether we want it to be or not, right, we often think about the inevitability of change as something that’s kind of a negative challenge for us to overcome. But on the flip side of that, the inevitable change creates endless opportunities for us to evolve to transform to pivot, and to change our career trajectories. So we can we can have a lot of faith and that there will undoubtedly be opportunities for us to grow and shift. Sometimes when clients are stuck in this particular cycle, I encourage them to play out their worst case scenario. I think it’s easy to have this kind of amorphous idea of Oh, no, I’m going to be trapped in this. We’re thinking about that in terms of the oppressive feeling that takes over us when we when we are faced with that potential future. But often when we actually get really specific about that, quote, worst case scenario, most clients I talked to get to the point of, oh, well, then I guess I would just try and apply for a different position or, or maybe I guess I would apply to school and I would go back to school or and you can see in their bodies, just the pressure releasing and this realization that yeah, change, change is inevitable, and you’re not going to be locked into this role forever. There will always be opportunities for you to take on a new skill, a new project to pivot into a different role to apply for a new position. That’s just the nature of the game. And you know this right, like so many people, most people now have multiple careers. throughout their lifetime, not even just multiple jobs anymore within the same career sector, but the majority of people are actually making pretty substantive career shifts at least once or twice throughout their entire career journey. This is a normal process. 

Jenn Smith  20:14  

Yeah, for sure. I love helping folks with career changes just because of that. And the fact that it makes it more fun sometimes to you know, like, yes, you grow as a person, you grow out of things, you grow into things and like change, like you said, it’s definitely inevitable, and it can make your career and your life, you know, more fun that way, too. So, and I like thinking, and I’m glad you mentioned, like the tech thing, and like thinking it’s gonna be forever, I think industry changes, a lot of times folks get caught up that they don’t have industry knowledge. So they could never make an industry shift or industry change. Where I think like, when you have like, the two big buckets, I like to think about with with change are the role that you do in the industry that you work in. And out of those two, none of this is easy, but out of those two, making an industry shift, and using those transferable foundational skills can be easier than actually making a role change if you have to go and gather more experience or education or meet me meet new people and build a new network. And so sometimes people talk themselves out of that, you know, just thinking that, Oh, God, I’m going to change into this, or I have to stay in this industry forever. Because it’s the only thing I know, when really that’s not the case. It’s super, super transferable across, you know, multiple industries, usually those transferable skills are the foundational knowledge. 

Emily Jackson  21:32  

So absolutely. And oftentimes, it’s it’s a, it’s their language differences, right. Like there’s certain types of language, HR language that’s used in interviews in the tech world that is really different from the educational or nonprofit sector, for example. And so people trying to make that shift feel like, well, I don’t know the content of anything that I’m going to be doing when it’s actually that maybe they just need to read through a glossary of terms that are often used in tech environments, for example. So something as simple as that can can be a pretty transformative shift and very empowering for people to realize no, no, the content of what I’d be doing, I totally have expertise in that area. And I can adjust these little words here and there to indicate that I know what I’m doing right, so to speak that language, that could be a huge factor.

Jenn Smith  22:20  

The whole professional branding and a career change comes into play like that’s what’s popping. In my mind, it makes such a difference when you speak the language of the organization and the industry that you’re looking to transition to once again, Words matter. 

Emily Jackson  22:34  

Words matter, people. 

Jenn Smith  22:38  

All right, so the next one that we want to talk about is, there is one right decision to get me to my goals. So I better make the right choice. 

Emily Jackson  22:50  

Man, I feel this one really personally, you know, I’ve talked to I’ve experienced this myself, I think many of us have. And I have talked to a lot of people who really feel like they’re having to choose between multiple options. It’s not you know, where I am now. And then one next step, it’s, Oh, should I go to grad school? Should I pursue this other path should I stay in my role and try and get more experience. So for example, one of my clients knows that their end goal is to work in data science for the nonprofit sector, they’re really excited about that. But she’s stuck in the story that she has to make the right next move, quote, right, next move in order to achieve that goal, the implication being if she doesn’t make that right next move, then she will not be able to achieve her goals. And she’s really agonizing about which of several options she should pursue next. And to reframe that the very fact that she is torn between two or three next steps is evidence that there are multiple pathways to achieving your goals, right, she can achieve her goals by going to grad school and honing her skills in a particular area, she could totally achieve her goals by strategically identifying new network connections that can help her move towards, you know, that future path, and she could achieve her goals by even staying in her current position and maybe doing something like volunteering for an organization to help her get clarity about what particular issue area she wants to focus on. So when we’re stuck choosing between multiple next steps, that is a reminder to us that there are multiple pathways and we can celebrate that. And remember, we can try one thing, and we can shift gears, we can try something else. Every experience that we encounter is teaching us something about ourselves, what we want what’s important to us what skills we have, we’re learning new skills and strengths through every single opportunity. So I just want I want to, like release us collectively, from this idea that we have to choose the right thing because frankly, it just it doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist. There is no right or wrong answer? 

Jenn Smith  25:02  

Yes. I feel like those words come out of my every single day. Yeah. And it’s funny because clients they look, you know, to a career coach for answers, quote, unquote, they have all the answers. We’re just there to help them get to the get to the answers. But a lot of times, the question comes up, is that the right thing? Is that Is this wrong? Is this right? There really is no right or wrong with this. It’s really what what works for you, you know, and I think that’s probably a narrative that goes back to early days of school when they’re, you know, when you’re, maybe me with my test taking there’s a right or wrong answer here. You know, with careers, there really isn’t a right or wrong answer. So I love just like lifting that, you know, weight off of our shoulders for sure. 

Emily Jackson  25:46  

Yeah. And I also want to acknowledge that it adds another weight, right? Like, yes, okay, we know that there’s not one right answer, but also the fact that then we are responsible for our own experience like that is really terrifying for a lot of people. And in many ways, it certainly would be easy if someone just told us what that right next move was. And so I have so much empathy and compassion for folks that are trying to make that decision. It is not an easy one. And I don’t mean to say that it is easy for us to choose that next path. But I think what we can try and release ourselves from is feeling like we’re going to make a mistake, because every next step, we can we can view it as an opportunity to learn and to grow. And that’s what life is. I mean, it’s cliche, because it’s true that it’s about the journey, right? Like it’s not a particular end goal. It’s everything that we’re experiencing, and learning and giving to the world along the way. I think that just is important for us to to connect to first 

Jenn Smith  26:45  

Yeah, you gather more information, you know, as you try new things, you gather more information to make your your next best decision, you know exactly what you know, until you give it a shot, really. So yeah. And

Emily Jackson  26:56  

all we can do is make the decision with the information that we have at the time, right, it’s certainly helpful to do I always encourage clients to do a fair amount of reflecting on what’s important to them, you know, what are their values? What are there things, they’re really passionate about? What strengths and skills are they bringing to this, it is important to to connect to that clarity around some of what we want, but we don’t have to know the exact end goal. 

Jenn Smith  27:21  

Yeah, yeah, it’s important to mention that, and that’s really why, you know, Career Clarity Show exists, the way it exists, is because gathering that information can help you make the most informed decision for your next step. And then you move into that next step, and you gather even more information, and then so on. So, yeah, I think it’s important to spend some time reflecting in order to make the most informed decision for you, you know, and kind of I know, this is a little bit later on around the shoulds. But there’s a lot of shoulds out there, you know, it’s kind of fighting those in order to, you know, make the next best move for you. 

Emily Jackson  27:54  

So, yes, absolutely. All right. 

Jenn Smith  27:57  

So number four here is I have to know my exact end goal in order for this career change to be worth the risk. 

Emily Jackson  28:06  

Yeah, the risk is really real, right, it takes a lot of courage to leave a position that you’re in. And I want to acknowledge that some of us certainly have more privilege or more opportunities to take risks around our careers, right. And I don’t want to invalidate that, like, you know, when we have more financial stability, or we have a financially stable partner who can support us for a few months, it can totally make it easier for us to take a risk and our careers. And many folks do not necessarily have that luxury. But I also want to emphasize that we do we can find ways to creatively have that freedom for ourselves to creatively make those choices to try something new. And we don’t necessarily need to know that exact end goal. So for example, one of my clients was feeling really unhappy as a teacher, she was ready for a change, and she wanted to shift into the corporate world. But she didn’t really know the exact role or space that she wanted to occupy in the corporate sector. And she was feeling really stuck trying to identify the exact job that she wanted to feel ready to take that risk. She didn’t feel like she deserved to take that risk, until she knew that exact end goal. And I think it gets back to some of what we’ve been talking about. But to reframe it, you know, as long as we have some sense of clarity around what we’re wanting and what’s important to us and what’s driving this decision, you know, what we’re moving towards risks often bring about unexpected opportunities, even if they end up being different than what we might have imagined. So maybe we’re expecting that taking a risk leaving teaching is going to lend us a certain role in HR. That might not be the outcome. It might be something really different. Maybe you end up being actually really excited about programming and you want to go and do a boot You can or you want to go back to school. But we don’t know that until we create space for a new opportunity. And that always takes a level of risk. In order for us to really open up the space for something new, there’s inevitably going to be some loss that’s associated with that. And that, that risk is really hard to stomach. And we have to be really thoughtful about our circumstances. And when we can take that risk. But I encourage folks to not get stuck in this cycle of I need to know exactly what I want to do in order to make this risk worthwhile. There will always be powerful learning, growth and opportunities that come from any risk that you take. 

Jenn Smith  30:45  

And yeah, I’m getting creative. I like what you said about the creativity, like getting creative, you know, to figure out different experiments and what you can try to help mitigate that risk and make it you know, make it feel more comfortable is also a key a key element there. I think so. You know, and when you think about it, too, you know, experiments and trying can certainly be scary, but it can also be fun, you know? So like, maybe reframing this to like, hey, what am I going to try that? That would be fun for me, like, it doesn’t have to be all blood, sweat and careers. 

Emily Jackson  31:21  

True. It’s so true. There is so much joy and excitement that can come from trying something new and pushing ourselves out of our comfort zone. I mean, life gets pretty boring when you stay stagnant for too long, right? Like we know this, we know that feeling of stuckness. So I think yeah, you’re absolutely right. Part of this is like bringing in that joy and excitement for a new opportunity that we’re bringing and creating for ourselves. Make it fun. I love it make it fun.

Jenn Smith  31:50  

All right, so number five is a big one, all those shoulds. So the stories in our heads about who we should be or what we should be doing. And there are so many of these in the world of comparison, and social media makes it even harder. So talk to us about your thoughts on this one, Emily? 

Emily Jackson  32:11  

Oh, yeah, I mean, I think we all navigate this. And the shoulds are super powerful. They come from lots of different places, in our lives, in our culture, in our families, they come from our internal experiences or interactions with folks during school, and they are really hard to shake. And so you know, one of my clients, for example, just recently turned 30. And he was feeling a lot of insecurity and self doubt about what he had achieved. So his story that he had really latched on to his should was, I should be further along in my career, I should be more successful. And I know, I know that this has resonated with me at certain points. I know, this has resonated with so many of the clients and students that I’ve worked with. And I think, you know, the easy counter narrative to jump to with this type of should is to simply say that everyone has a different path, right, and to reinforce to yourself that there is not one right way, like we’ve talked about. But I think one thing that’s really unique about the shoulds that we latch on to and really internalize is, is that, you know, they are really sticky with these really big sticky shoulds, it’s actually often more impactful and more freeing to dive into them a little bit more. So our shoulds actually tell us a lot about our values, and what’s important to us and what we have learned from our families and communities about what it means to be a professional. And the process of diving into our shoulds to better understand where they come from and how they manifest for us can help us not only learn more about ourselves, but they naturally open up new ways of thinking they naturally prompt us to create and explore counter narratives or reframed narratives. So for example, if the should is at 30, I should be more successful. Then maybe ask yourself, well, how how am I defining success? And where did that definition of success really come from? And okay, now that I’ve identified where it came from, maybe it’s a combination of cultural influences or on what it means to be a successful man in society. Maybe it comes from our family ideas of what success looks like, once I kind of identify where that comes from. Do I agree with that definition of success? Like really, with the knowledge of who I am now and what’s important to me at 30 or at whatever age you’re at? Do I really agree with this definition of success that I have been holding on to for so long and trying to attain and what might this definition of success be missing? What’s not included in this right? That process of really diving into these shoulds. And exploring what they mean for us can bring about new alternatives and new ways of thinking new definitions of what it means to be successful, you know, what you should be doing at a particular age. So I think that that this is this is like the core area, right? Like in order to really reframe our narrative and reframe our experience, we’re gonna have to do some work, we’re gonna have to really be reflective and dig into our experiences and our understandings and our development to kind of get a sense of, you know, what are these stories that we’re holding on to, and how we can how we can start to shift those. 

Jenn Smith  35:45  

Yes, and especially right now, because the world of work has been turned upside down. And the definition of success is changing. And it’s always been different for everybody. But now, holy smokes, it is changing, for sure. And so yes, taking the time you hit it spot on taking the time to really dive in and understand what that means for you, without the outside influence is huge. And that really can give you a lot of answers. In terms of defining your career path or understanding what might be next for you, Hard.

Emily Jackson  36:15  

It’s very hard. Yeah, no, no, this is easy. And I think it doesn’t necessarily just mean, you know, being very individualistic about you know, career success is just what’s most important to you, I think we have to acknowledge that, like, we coexist with our families and communities. And that may be success for you, is collective success of your community, right. And that is totally okay. But what’s most important is that we’re taking the time to really reflect on what is most important to us what it really means to be successful in our career. So it can, it can be folding in, you know, providing for my extended family, or maybe sacrificing one piece over here in order to really be that financial provider for my community. All of that is possible and allowable. And okay, I just want to push back against this idea. I think, in the United States, we have a very kind of culturally narrow view of what it means to be successful. And it’s often quite individualistic. And there are multiple ways to think about that as well. 

Jenn Smith  37:24  

Great perspective, for sure. And I love to thinking about the other people that might have contributed to the sheds. A lot of times our family, you know, they want us to be safe, and they don’t want us to take risks and make changes and do something different and do something, you know, that might not be considered the norm. But that’s their perspective, because they want the best for us. And sometimes we have to share a little bit about where we’re coming from in order for them to understand and still kind of move down, you know, our path to understand what that looks like for us. 

Emily Jackson  37:55  

So yeah, right. It’s about being a self advocate. Right. And, and it’s hard to be an advocate for yourself and your goals and your path, when you don’t have a lot of clarity around what’s important to you and what you want. So that’s where that clarity piece really diving into that is such an important first step, for sure. 

Jenn Smith  38:14  

And these tips. And these stories have been so helpful, especially with the examples. If you could kind of narrow down a couple tips on how to reframe your thoughts for our listeners, just to help get them you know, through the through the hurdles, if they’re going through some of these stories themselves. What are some of your top tips to kind of move through these, these stories? 

Emily Jackson  38:37  

Yeah, so I mean, the first step is really to identify the narrative or story that you’re stuck in, right? You cannot begin the work of reframing, if you don’t actually really know what that story is. So there are a couple ways that you can identify this for yourself. So for example, you can you know, if an opportunity comes to you, or you’re looking at a job description, and you’re thinking about a next step, asking yourself, you know, what assumption Am I making about myself regarding this opportunity? So the assumption might be I’m assuming that I’m not capable, or I’m assuming that I don’t know what I want. I’m assuming that there’s one right path, that assumption being that narrative, that story, right? Or simply asking, Okay, what’s the story that I’m telling myself about this opportunity, and get really specific, I am a huge proponent of journaling, or documenting your ideas in some way. It doesn’t need to be written, it can be drawing out what that story is for yourself. But take it out of your brain out of your body so that you can see it in front of you. I think that is so valuable to get really a little bit of distance from what that story is it enables you to observe it and manipulate it in a different way. And then the second step, I think, is to acknowledge how that story might be limiting you or your potential to achieve your goals. So for example, my story is that I’m not qualified. The story that I’m not qualified makes me less likely To apply for positions that I’m excited about, guaranteeing that I won’t get that opportunity and contributing to my feelings of stuckness. So how is that story? I’m telling myself functioning for me? What is what is that meaning about my experience with regards to a particular goal? And then I do think that it’s helpful to, you know, at this third step of reflecting on where that story might have come from. If you don’t know, that’s okay, but take some time to reflect and journal. You know, what factors in your life experience might have contributed to the development of that story? Was it something that a teacher said to you in third grade that you really internalize like, that’s okay. But recognize, try and recognize where those stories have come from, and how they’ve shaped you. And then the fourth step is, is the hardest, because it’s where you really have to get creative and challenging that story. So you are responsible for your internal experience, right? You have power over your thoughts, they do not happen to you, and they are not truth. So you have the power to start generating evidence to create a new story that feels more empowering and full of opportunities for yourself. So this could be as simple as I have a lot of strengths and skills that I’m bringing to this role. And I’ll never get this job, if I don’t apply. That alone might be the shift that you need. But maybe it means getting really specific about some of the strengths and skills. So maybe it means spending some time really brainstorming what amazing talents and strengths and qualities you bring in to your career experience. This is this is hard, and it can be hard to do on our own sometimes. So one strategy is to think about, if you were your friend, what would your friend offer to you? What would they highlight about your strengths and experience. Another thing is to sit down with someone else and really talk through this generative brainstorming process to start coming up with new alternatives. But just remember that you have the power to shift the way that you’re thinking about things. And you know yourself best, you know, the power that you bring into your experience. And it’s really about giving yourself permission to own your value and your worth, and your remarkable strengths and resilience that you’re bringing into your career journey. 

Jenn Smith  42:30  

Fantastic how tos, I am all about practical action. And so if anyone is listening, that is going through this, these stories right now, rewind, write down how to use these, the those the how tos will help you process these stories and move through them and make your career shift or change happen. So really, really, really good practical tips.

Emily Jackson  42:57  

One more I’m going to add actually, one more I’m going to add to that I just experienced in this previous conversation was the power of the word yet. So you know, we tell ourselves these stories like I can’t make this change. But you add one three letter word to the end of that I can’t make this change yet. Here’s what I have to do before I can make that change. It’s so powerful. 

Jenn Smith  43:22  

I love that so much so much. Because then it opens up this whole other space of questions we can be asking, well, then how, how might I go about working towards that goal? Right? It’s so solution oriented. Oh, that’s amazing. I’m definitely going to fold that in. Thank you. 

Emily Jackson  43:43  

Excellent, excellent. Excellent. 

Jenn Smith  43:46  

So Emily to wrap things up. If somebody’s listening, and they’re struggling with these really powerful inner stories, what is one piece of wisdom that you have to help them? 

Emily Jackson  43:56  

Well, first, I just want to offer you know, be gentle with yourself. These decisions are really hard. And you are not alone in experiencing doubt and uncertainty. It really can feel like you’re alone in this process. But if you’re out in the space, look around, I guarantee you 99% of people around you have struggled with something similar or in the process of struggling with it right now. So I encourage you to really try and hold compassion for yourself, when you are navigating these career transitions. They are not easy. And second, you know, remember that these stories that we tell ourselves are not always true. Just because we have a thought does not make it the truth. And remember that we have this immense power to really transform and shift our thinking. If we have learned these stories over time, we can unlearn them, and we have the power. So my advice is to be curious about the stories that you feel stuck in and Challenge yourself to tell a new story to chart an internal, a new internal path for yourself, things aren’t going to change until you make that commitment to try something different. And the amount of opportunities that will come from that internal shift that can’t be quantified. Give yourself some grace, and get curious, you have the power to change your ability to think and perform and make this happen. 

Jenn Smith  45:29  

Love it. So Emily, as we wrap up here, what is next for you? 

Emily Jackson  45:34  

Oh, I’m taking on new clients right now. So as I mentioned, you know, sometimes it can be really hard to explore these these issues alone. So if you’re feeling like you’re really stuck, and you really want to talk to someone, know that you can reach out to me, I would love to talk with you about your experience. So I know Jenn is going to be including my website, feel free to take a look. I’m also thinking about maybe starting my own podcast, maybe starting to do some workshops. I’ve got some exciting things in the future. And I’m just really excited to get to talk with more folks about their experience and their journey and support them as they move forward on their path. 

Jenn Smith  46:15  

Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today and your expertise and your examples and your stories. I know that our listeners are going to get so much out of this and your current and future clients are going to just get so much working with you. So I’m glad that you have found this path, because I know you’re gonna make such a difference with folks. So thank you for being here with us today. It’s such an important and helpful topic and I really can’t wait for our listeners to dive in. Thank you so much, Jen. It’s been such an honor and a privilege and absolute joy to talk with you about this. So that’s a wrap for today’s episode. As always, you can find the notes from today’s podcast episode at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast Bye for now.

Lisa Lewis Miller  47:11  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity: Finally Find the Work That Fits Your Values and Lifestyle. For the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.