144: Using Your Inner Wisdom In Career Decisions with Megan Leatherman

Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show! For any Career Clarity seekers that are interested in leaning into more of your own inner wisdom to make career decisions, this episode is for you. Guest Megan Leatherman joins our Host Jenn Smith to discuss how to lean into our own inner wisdom to make career decisions. Megan is a coach, a writer, an amateur ecologist, and the founder of a Wild New Work. 

Show Notes:

• A Wild New Work
• Instagram: @awildnewwork
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04   

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Hello, hello,

Jenn Smith  0:31  

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host Career Clarity Show coach Jenn Smith. If you’re a listener who is interested in leaning into more of your own inner wisdom to make career decisions, or if you’re interested in building a stronger bridge between work and nature, then you’re going to love today’s episode. Today’s guest is Megan Leatherman. Megan is a coach, a writer, an amateur ecologist, and the founder of a wild new work, Megan has helped hundreds of people feel better exactly where they are, and create momentum into the work they’re truly meant to do. She has a master’s degree in conflict resolution, a background in HR, and believes that our work can be a spiritual practice. Megan, welcome to the show.

Megan Leatherman  1:23  

Hey, thank you. I’m excited to be here.

Jenn Smith  1:26  

So Megan, I am so curious about your story, and what drew you into this space of inner wisdom, bringing that out in people and the connection to nature. So if you don’t mind sharing a little of your origin story, I’d love to hear.

Megan Leatherman  1:39  

Yeah, I think for most like most people, it’s sort of an organic, unexpected process I started, my professional story sort of starts in graduate school. And I decided to get a degree in conflict and dispute resolution, and ended up after graduating moving to Boston and sort of needing a job but not being totally sure where to plug in. And I thought that working in human resources would be a great way to practice what I learned about conflict resolution and serve people inside of an organization. So I did that for about a year and a half. And it was a really fast paced startup culture, I got promoted really quickly, it was a lot very fast. And I didn’t really have the skills to tend to my nervous system and sort of balance myself throughout the day. So I burned out pretty quickly and realized that I really needed to move home back to Oregon. So my partner and I moved back here to Portland. And I ended up staying on as a contractor with them for about a year, which I hadn’t even thought of as a possibility. But thank goodness for my wonderful VP of HR who offered it sort of as a bridge for both of us. And that was my first kind of foray into self employment. And for me, when I got a taste of, you know, being able to guide my workflow in the day and start when I wanted and work from home, I realized how hungry I was for that. And so I started to just explore that more, I took on a couple of other HR consulting roles. I did apply for roles in HR, but it was one of those situations where it felt like every door was closing. And I just kept being drawn back into this path of self employment and trying to carve my own way. And so I just started writing a blog, I started kind of sharing my thoughts about the workplace and employee experience, but also my own experience of trying to find my way through this really confusing, but kind of exciting time. So that was about eight years ago. And since then, I’ve just been writing and learning and supporting people one on one, I shifted into career coaching after about a year of consulting, and just tried it out for like five hours a week and really fell in love with supporting people in that way. And so it’s been an experimental process in that time, but it’s definitely the path I’m meant to be on. And I I’m really excited to just stay close to what feels true for me and kind of continue to follow the threads that show up.

Jenn Smith  4:11  

Yeah, I love that you listen to your own inner wisdom along the way to get you where you are. And maybe starting out in HR. We were chatting before we hit record that that can sometimes feel like drinking from a firehose, quite literally. And you know, that burnout factor can come pretty quickly. And so it’s awesome that you kind of leaned into what was driving you towards self employment and stuck with it so good for you. Megan, then the name of your business is very interesting to me a wild new work. Can you share a little bit about the origin of where that came from?

Megan Leatherman  4:45  

Yeah. For a few years, I was starting to write about nature and look at sort of what the natural world has to say about living in a good way and also working in a good and balanced way. And I was putting together They’re this course for people. And at that point, I was just working under my name. But I knew I needed like a name for this course. And it just sort of magically appeared. It’s one of those times where you’re just sort of open and you’re like intending and looking for something. And then it just arrives when it’s the right time. And I was like, Oh, this program used to be called a wild new work. And over the years, it just sort of evolved. And I made it my entire business name a couple of years later, because I think it really encapsulates this desire, I have to bring our working lives into alignment with the natural world and ourselves as nature and that dominant culture likes to tell us that those are two separate things us and nature, but they’re not at all we are, this is nature, everything that we do in our working days is included in the natural world. But we are so caught up in the sort of day to day like linear, very binary, like Rational reality of modern work that we it’s very easy to get burnt out and lost, because we’re not connected to those cycles and to working in sustainable ways. And so a wild new work is really aspirational, and, you know, wanting to inspire us to get closer to a more rhythmic, natural, organic way of living and working.

Jenn Smith  6:21  

I am so into it. I remember, I remember being in a job that was just completely not right for me. And one of the things that I started doing every single day was going for a walk outside after work every single day, I went for a walk, whether it was 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever. And it just completely grounded me my head would be spinning, I would be just out there and I would go everyday on my way home, there was this cute manicured Park and it had ducks in a pond and all of the things and I would just spend some time there. And it just took me right out of my head and grounded me and I was able to kind of finish my day. Otherwise, I feel like I would go home. And I would just continue that spiral and man nature, it really changed the game for me. So I think the more people can that, you know, the more that people can lean into that the better off they are for sure. I love that that’s kind of your mission with career and nature and work. So talk to me about this head heart kind of push pull listening to your inner wisdom. I know so many of our listeners feel this on a pretty regular basis. And a lot of times people have a limiting belief around they can’t have both meaningful work and an abundant income. And so it’s like this either or kind of thing. And I’m totally on a mission to help people realize that that it can be both. And so would you mind sharing with our listeners what you mean, by leaning into your inner wisdom to make career decisions? Like what does that what does that look like? What does that mean for you?

Megan Leatherman  7:56  

Yeah, I really believe that everyone is the expert on their own experience, and that everyone’s path is so unique, I have not met anyone who doesn’t have something really important and lovely and beautiful to share with the world. But it’s so easy to get sort of swept up in what we think of as like traditional career development that you’re supposed to go from A to B and it should look like an upward trend where you’re growing and responsibility and income. And if you don’t have one thing that you’re really passionate about, or that you’re in sight of that there’s something wrong, right that if you don’t have a lot of clarity about what you’re going to be doing in 10 years, that there’s a problem. And that’s just not my experience. And again, like bringing it back to the natural world. I don’t think that’s true there. Either the natural world is so cyclical, there’s this, you know, the plants and animals that we see, they’re not caught up and constantly questioning what they’re doing or why or how to get to where they want to be. There’s this integrity, and ease of just being who they are, how they are and adapting to their environment. So our brains are these incredible organs. But I think like you mentioned, they are really good at seeing things as either or, you know, it’s sort of this or that not both and, and I have the same desire to help people really expand their perception of what is possible that it can be a mix, that it will change that you will go through autumns and winters in your career where things are falling away, and you don’t know where you’re going. And that’s part of the process, right? We have to have life death and rebirth. It’s all this singular experience. So when I talk about people really leaning into their inner wisdom, for me, that means creating enough space to actually hear that and connect with that. So whether it’s a regular walk, like you mentioned, a meditation practice every morning, some sort of container that you have in your life where you are regular Literally metabolizing your experiences and making enough room to actually feel what you feel and hear that subtle voice inside each of us that is not nearly as loud as the brain or as loud as our inner critic or dominant culture, or whatever it is. It’s quiet, and it’s subtle, and it needs space and an invitation. But once we create that container, and once you sort of connect with that more regularly, it’s really amazing to see what can happen and how much clarity you actually do have, even when it doesn’t feel like it.

Jenn Smith  10:35  

Yes, I feel like so many people just don’t take the time to slow down and cut out the distractions and ask the tough questions. And so then they you know, just keep asking, I don’t know what I want to do, or saying, I don’t know what I want to do, I don’t know what I want to do. I know it’s not this, but I don’t know what I want to do. And most of the time, it’s because they haven’t, you know, experienced that stillness or taking the time to just slow down and listen, really listen to, you know, to what their intuition is telling them. So you mentioned like this container and some ideas there around meditations or walking. What other ideas do you have for someone like, you know, in terms of like the how to, because, you know, sometimes for people that maybe are very logical, this might sound woowoo, or, you know, they’re not really sure how to listen to their intuition or their inner wisdom. So what are some other ideas that people could use to act on this,

Megan Leatherman  11:28  

what I’ve seen to be most successful is that your container can be anything, it should be something that speaks to you, and fits for you, like, if you despise meditation, like don’t, you know, you might try it, I encourage you to keep an open mind. But I would never encourage someone to do something that really just does not fit for them. But for a good container to be there. It needs to be something we do consistently. And it needs to be something that’s spacious enough, I think a lot of us, we want the like, we want to do something for 10 minutes a day. And then it fixes everything right like and I totally feel that I get that desire. But like you said, we do I need that slower pace. So it could be a regular therapist appointment, a regular conversation with a friend, a hike that you do every month, it could be a quarterly retreat, it needs to be something that your subconscious can start to rely on as a way to remember that and show yourself that you are creating this space that you’re open to hearing all of yourself, not just your rational brain that’s very loud, you’re open to hearing like this, the subtle messages that you need and the cues that your body is sending you. So it can be big things like a quarterly retreat or an hour of meditation in the morning, if you have the space for that. But it’s also I think, just a willingness to start listening to your whole self, not just the brain, you know, everyone I talked to, who has who’s like in an interview or job search process, they get signals from their body in the interview about whether it’s going to fit for them. And it’s not just nerves, it’s really, that the brain that lives in our gut, and in our heart, those speak to us, right, but we don’t, we don’t often have a practice of recognizing them. But if you’ve ever talked to someone, or had this experience yourself, where you took a job that you just had a bad feeling about, but that looked really good on paper, like, it’s probably not going to end the way that you want it to. And I’ve done that, too. So this is just an invitation to listen to your whole self, all the faculties that you have, you know, not just your brain that lives inside your head.

Jenn Smith  13:41  

Yeah, for sure. I think journaling is one way that I that’s helped me a lot in the past. And then going back and rereading, you know, kind of what what you’ve written without judgment, just writing, like, whatever comes to mind, you know, remember just looking at a blank page, I’m like, Okay, I, you know, and then just writing and so much, you know, kind of comes out and you process that and then look back at it, and it can really give you so many clues. My sister is an art therapist, and she does that with her clients in terms of just, you know, arts and bringing that out and helping them make decisions through art, which I think is is fascinating as well. So I think all of those ideas are really smart. And I also think that you know, listening to your body is such a big piece, you know, even like you said, it’s not just nerves like your body knows what’s right and wrong for you. You know, I was recently worked with a client who kept applying for the same job over and over and over again. So they’re trained in let’s just say digital marketing, and they continue to apply for digital marketing jobs over and over getting interviews, getting to the point of you know, potentially even relocating, and then something stops her and like, No, this isn’t right. And it’s you know, it’s really her She’s not listening to her her whole heart, you know, and like you said, the brain in your gut as well as in your head and, and it’s really interesting that this this pattern keeps keeps happening. And I pointed that out to her. And she’s like, Oh my gosh, this is the same thing again. And again, what she really wants to do is start her own specialty coffee shop. When there’s a lot of logical, you know, reasons that you know, there’s a pause there. But you know that pause there, you know that you continue to do the same thing over and over again. But then pause every single time at the very end, that’s telling you something that’s a big message that you know, some it’s time to maybe change course, or listen to what you have going on in your, in your gut.

Megan Leatherman  15:30  

Yeah, I think a lot of people, myself included, can avoid creating the space and tuning in because it is scary. Like, it would probably be easier for your client to just do another digital marketing role, right? It’s really scary and overwhelming to start a specialty coffee place like and so that we can avoid it out of fear. Because we might be worried that we’re not going to get any clarity, there’s nothing there if we slow down and really listen. Or that the message we’re going to get is going to require us to really step into our own path and calling and that can be really scary.

Jenn Smith  16:04  

Yes, stepping outside the comfort zone is very scary. And that fear holds a lot of people back for sure. And I think also another thing that causes people to pause a little bit is that they feel like they have to make a right or wrong decision. So sometimes people are too focused on making a quote unquote, wrong decision. Instead of just taking those first couple steps to explore that voice or explore that feeling, you know, explore the curiosity that’s happening. I don’t know. Have you experienced that with your clients as well?

Megan Leatherman  16:35  

Oh, totally. Yeah, a lot of people will. Yeah, just continue the really hard work of what’s familiar and the the work of really sitting with how they feel and reassessing and kind of being with what is here gets avoided. Because it’s just, again, as unfamiliar and and the unknown.

Jenn Smith  16:59  

I mean, I think the other the other piece there is that sometimes people are afraid to be honest and admit to themselves, what they’re really looking for, you know, there’s so many like other things like judgment from other people, or what mom and dad are gonna think or, you know, again, going back to like what I’m supposed to be doing, or whatever that is, but sometimes people are even afraid to admit to themselves, you know, what they really want out of their career, because it’s not traditional, or they want to go down a different path. And, you know, they’re just afraid to even say it out loud or admit it to themselves.

Megan Leatherman  17:32  

Yeah, almost everyone I start working with, you know, we’re at the very beginning, they’ll say, I don’t know what I want to do, I just have no idea. I just know it’s not this. But sure enough, after like one or two sessions, there is some sort of dream that’s in there some seed that they just haven’t given themselves permission to explore. And it’s, I don’t know if it’s true for everyone in the entire world. But really, everyone I’ve worked with has something like that. They just need a safe place to name it. And it is like this tiny, fragile seed that needs a good environment to grow. And it needs rich soil, it needs your love and attention. But so often, we see it and we just, like shun it, or we put it in a closet, or we just, you know, pour dirt all over it and don’t really let it grow. But there are always these like, really nascent precious seeds of potential that we just need to give a little bit of space and care to

Jenn Smith  18:26  

I 100% agree with you. It is amazing to me that you get on one or two calls with someone and all of a sudden this big, amazing dream opens up and you’re like, Where was this? Where did this come from? Obviously, you didn’t just think of this in the last five minutes. Like this has been something that you’ve been thinking about for so long. Let’s talk about it, you know, so I think I love that idea. And the other thing, too, that I that just kind of popped into my head here that and I’ve experienced all of this my own self is this notion of like the golden handcuffs. So people are in, you know, these corporate jobs. And you know, they get promotion after promotion, and it feels so flattering and they’re making great money, but they’re miserable, and it’s wearing on their mental health or physical health, you know, they are in and they have this secret dream, but those golden handcuffs, just hold them back constantly. So do you have any thoughts about that? Or maybe you’ve worked with folks that have experienced that as well?

Megan Leatherman  19:29  

Definitely. Yeah, I think it’s important to remember that, that sort of dream inside us or James Hillman calls it, the acorn that we’re born with this essence of us that comes through, won’t be satisfied by you know, any amount of money or prestige or status of that might feed us for maybe a couple of years. But you’re right over time. Our disconnection to the true path that we want to walk down or the way that we want to live That disconnection can really erode our sense of self. And so you do see people who have succeeded, you know, and been really high up in something for many years, just sort of crumble at the lack of identity and congruence that they feel with themselves, because they have ignored this part of them for so long, or they have made compromises for this way of being in the world that just doesn’t really align for them. And I will just say that the context that we’re in culturally does make it hard to make a change, because your medical, your medical care probably is wrapped up in your job, and you do need an income to live. And we don’t live in a society that makes it easy to be fluid and make changes and do a little thing here be self employed in this way. So it is hard to carve out a path that’s unique to you. But I would rather do that work and make it and it’s hard in its own way than be inside of something that is totally overwhelming to me that I know isn’t really where my heart is. So it’s sort of like a choice of what kind of difficulty or struggle you want to adopt and take on and, and I hope people will start taking on more of the work that is hard, but ultimately leads to your own integrity, you know, yeah, for

Jenn Smith  21:16  

sure. I remember feeling at one point that I was two different people, I was one person at work. And then I was one person at home. And these people didn’t even dress alike. Completely different people, I’ll share a quick story. I mentioned my sister’s an art therapist, she’s also an artist, and she, she would make jewelry very beautiful metal smithing jewelry. And I went to one of her shows and bought this bracelet that I had my eye on forever. And I couldn’t wait until it was done. And so I bought it. And then and this is on a weekend, and then I was going to work and I was like, this doesn’t match my work outfit. Like I don’t feel even comfortable wearing this bracelet into the office. And it just felt so awful. Like, it’s it’s like, you know, my identities were completely different. The weekend Gen and the professional Gen was so different. And it just ate away at me after a while, you know, and I always had this whisper in the back of my mind around career and resumes and branding and helping people figure out what’s next. But I never paid attention to it. And then as soon as I started paying attention to it was able to bring the two people together into one, gosh, it’s made such a world of a difference both physically, mentally, all of the things and so I feel like there’s you know, I’ve worked with clients that that have those, these two different identities even and it’s just, it’s hard to live, it’s hard to manage two identities like that, you know, and, and try to be one person at, you know, in your day job when we spend as much time as we do in our day job. So,

Megan Leatherman  22:50  

yeah, it’s so exhausting. I mean, no wonder it’s feels hard to make a change when you’re in that, like it’s so draining to navigate that and manage all of that. And, you know, it’s one thing for people who sort of fit into the dominant workplace culture where you can sort of at least get by, and you’re considered professional because of your skin color, or the way that you dress or talk. And I know, it’s even more overwhelming for people who don’t really fit into that and feel like they have to contort themselves. And I think we all do, we have to contort ourselves to some degree to fit into this environment that’s just not very real or vibrant, or, you know, certainly not as diverse and beautiful as the natural world. And so I, I felt that too, just in little ways having to, you know, I took my nose ring out when I started in HR. And it’s like, why, like, why, you know, no one even asked me to do that. It’s just a silly symbol of wanting to fit in and be this like, certain thing that’s considered professional. And I’m excited to see more of that sort of falling away. And people being a little bit more free to be who they are, wherever they are. I hope that continues.

Jenn Smith  24:00  

Yeah, I agree with you. I think, you know, we’re definitely moving in the right direction, slowly but surely, but we are moving in the right direction. And you’re right, too. I mean, people, everyone’s different. Some people can survive and thrive in that kind of environment. And some people just don’t, you know, and so it’s for the folks that don’t, it’s recognizing that and doing what you need to do to make it you know, to make it more comfortable for yourself. So. So you’ve alluded a couple times, which I’m fascinated about aligning work and vocation with, you know, nature and seasons. And you’ve alluded to this a couple times throughout our conversation. So can you share a little bit more about like, what you mean about aligning your professional life or your vocational growth with the seasons?

Megan Leatherman  24:40  

Yeah, so I work with a seasonal framework in my business. So that means on one hand, like literally living in alignment with the seasons, so everything that I talk about right now is aligning with, you know, where we are in the cycles of the seasons is, you know, late winter, early spring period. So, I mean Literally resting more in the winter, grieving in the fall, supporting new ideas and possibility in the spring, really enjoying what you’ve built and nurturing it in the summer and managing your, your work and your load. So you don’t over exert and get, you know, heat exhaustion, metaphorically. So I mean, it literally like walking in alignment with the seasons. But I also mean it metaphorically in terms of like seasons of vocational change. And this is based on what I’ve seen people go through, as they start to become aware that the path they’ve been on needs to shift or the work that they’ve been doing needs to shift. And it really, for me, syncs up so beautifully with these four seasons that I live through, and here in the Pacific Northwest, this period of really releasing and grieving and letting go in the fall, even if you you even when you don’t know what’s coming next. But we always have to go through this initial period of letting go, we may not know what we want. Next, we just know that this isn’t it. And so helping clients work through that. And then we enter into this sort of pause of the winter season where we have to integrate and you have to let those leaves compost into the soil. There’s this kind of break after we’ve exhaled in the fall. And then we pause before we take our next inhale. And so we want to attune to what’s here. Now, now that the tree is bare, you know, what is its real shape? And what is its sort of core essence. And then in the spring, we’re looking at rebirth and emergence. And what are the new sprouts that are coming through that, again, we may not know, we don’t, we may not know if this is a pepper plant or a tomato, but we just want to like nurture what’s here. And so it’s okay that clients don’t always know that this is the job that’s going to be next, or this is the business I want to build, we just want to nurture the little signs and signals that we’re getting. And then in the summer, what was underneath the soil in the winter that we couldn’t see comes to fruition, we see, oh, it’s bearing peaches or his bearing roses, we can, we can really see what’s on the vine or on the plant No. And our role is to stay really aligned and close and give it the water that it needs. Give it the compost or fertilizer that it needs to sort of support what’s there. So it’s a period, vocationally of being in something where there’s like a level of comfort and mastery, where maybe we’re sharing the fruits of our labor, it’s maybe a little less energy intensive, but we can just sort of enjoy where we are. And a lot of us expect us to be in summer all the time, right? We don’t want to cross that threshold, again, back into the fall, where we’re where there’s loss again, and there’s an unknown and you know, there’s death and darkness. But just like every year, we go through these seasons, this happens through our lives as well, maybe not in alignment with the physical seasons. But certainly we all go through these periods of death and release and then rebirth and a new life. So it’s a way to make sense of that and work with that really intentionally rather than feeling like you’re just being dragged along or sort of pulled by the currents of your own fear or what’s around you. But really crossing those thresholds intentionally, literally and metaphorically.

Jenn Smith  28:16  

Fascinating. That was such a great description of it. And I feel like even energy changes, like my energy changes, you know, as I shift through the seasons, you know, and it there’s definitely something to be said, for that. I feel like I can literally feel it, you know, and right now we’re at the time of this recording, we’re shifting from, you know, winter into spring. And I feel this like, I don’t know, I don’t know if I want to use the word anxious, but like this energy coming, you know, that things? Are you like you mentioned rebirth and ready to bloom and grow. And so, you know, it’s definitely notable. Is there? Is there a better season for making a career change in your mind?

Megan Leatherman  29:00  

Hmm. No, not in my opinion, it’s really, I think up to where the person is on their journey. And if they feel like there’s a sense of openness to real, sustainable organic change, I think where people get into trouble is when we sort of try to force a thing or we like, skip the deep look of fall and winter, and we just want to go straight from late summer back into spring, you know, we just we’re gonna manifest this new thing, whether it’s right for us or not. And so I really encourage people to just again, tune into their own inner cycles and get to know where they are. And if they feel like they’ve had a little bit of space, they’ve integrated whatever they had to let go of, and they feel ready to kind of honor and nurture these new sprouts that are coming through that that’s an excellent time for change. I think a lot of people do literally sync up with the spring because it is so so invigorating and inspiring. And so a lot of my clients and people in my community right now are talking about making change. And there’s this desire to like, want to cross pollinate and get out there and see who’s there and, you know, exchange ideas and talk to new people. And I want to encourage people to really ride that wave and enjoy that, of course, your body knows what season it is, like your body tunes into the light and the temperature and what else is growing? So why not embrace that and see what it might have for you?

Jenn Smith  30:31  

Yeah, I totally agree. It’s so funny. When I was thinking about this conversation, I actually looked back and to see when I started most of my new jobs. And May was the month that I started most of my my new jobs, which I thought was really interesting when you think about new beginnings, and you know, what the springtime has to offer. So it’s interesting that your community is thinking about that, too, right now. So yeah, and I never thought of fall the way that you did in terms of, you know, grieving and the leafs kind of losing, you know, the trees, losing their leaves and getting ready for the darkness. I never thought of it that way. But it’s, it’s quite notable, and definitely something I’m gonna, I’m going to think about further. Do you have a favorite season, I have to ask.

Megan Leatherman  31:18  

I used to always say fall because it’s sort of my birthday season. And I think it does, even though for me, it does signal sort of the end of a cycle. Again, like anything in nature, it’s also the beginning. And so I think a lot of people do feel like the fall is a fresh start, where they can sort of, I don’t know, purge and make room for something else. But as I have really become intimately tied to the seasons, I just really treasure everyone. I mean, honestly, here in the Pacific Northwest, I’m, I’m struggling with my relationship to the summer, because it has become so hot, and so dry, and the fire season is kind of extending. And so I’m trying to just sort of sit with the reality of climate change and how the seasons themselves are changing. And right now just trying to really cherish the cold and the dark and the wet because to me, it feels like not something we should take for granted. So I think it’s sort of interesting that summer feels like it’s extending at the same time that so many people are feeling burnt out, overworked, thirsty, you know, for something else. And so I’m sort of paying attention to those cues in myself and in the people that I support.

Jenn Smith  32:34  

Yeah, I love that I’ve been doing the same thing. And I live in Western New York, we’re lucky enough to see the seasons and I this time of year for us, the winters get pretty long, and you know, in the snow keeps coming and that kind of stuff. And I’ve been really leaning into just embracing that. And, you know, letting it letting it happen and being okay with it and not rushing. You know, I think a lot of times, there’s one thing that you know, I feel like nature can can help us with his patience. Because it isn’t there isn’t a flip the switch, you know, solution to some of the stuff and especially when you’re really trying to get at your inner core and your inner wisdom, there isn’t a flip the switch and you know, the the seasons don’t change with a flip the switch, you know, it’s it’s, it takes time. And it’s changing even as you know, as we’re talking here. So I love that just kind of leaning into each of them. And I’ll tell you, I used to say fall was my favorite, I still think it is because it’s beautiful. I can’t help the change of the leaves and the colors of the trees and everything. But I’ve really been playing with more of just kind of leaning into all of them and, and accepting each season for what it’s worth. So do you have any advice for folks that are in a part of the world or a part of the country that doesn’t really experience the seasons? Like you do? And that I do?

Megan Leatherman  33:47  

Yes, I know that we’re sort of uniquely placed here in the northern hemisphere, I always encourage people to again, just really tune in to what is here, even for me, you know, every shift into spring feels a little bit different. It comes on a different timeline. And some years it’s really wet and some it’s dry. And so I just want to invite people to really learn about and develop a relationship to wherever they are. So even though you might not have four seasons that look like what you see on the calendar or whatever. There are still seasons, there might be a dry season and a wet season. It might be you know, really cold and then almost overnight, warm like there. Wherever you are in relation to the equator, it changes but there are seasons nothing in nature is constant and one thing all the time. And so I would encourage people to just get to know where they are and to develop language around what they see and notice how their body wants to relate to what they see again, like is there more light right now? What does that feel like for you? What could that mean metaphorically for what you’re looking for and what you need right now. So again, just honoring sort of where you are Are you starting to pay attention?

Jenn Smith  35:03  

Yeah, for sure. And I always wonder that too, because I talk a lot about the seasons, but that I feel like I’m leaving people out that don’t experience the seasons. And so I actually think that’s great advice. And I might have to steal that from you, Megan. Thanks for sharing that. And I love this notion of, you know, seasons of nature, but also seasons of our career. Because just like the seasons of nature, are, you know, the seasons in our career are not constant. They’re not forever, they don’t, you know, change on a flip of a switch, like, sometimes we would like them to. And so I think it’s just a beautiful way to kind of think about careers and change. So as we wrap things up here, Megan, if you could share one piece of advice for someone who’s struggling with listening to their inner wisdom, or interested in, you know, maybe learning more about aligning nature to their work, what would that advice be?

Megan Leatherman  35:58  

I would say, to start by creating some space, just, you don’t even have to know what you’re going to do inside of it, or know if anything’s gonna come with it. But really just creating some space, especially if you can in the mornings, just a space for you to sort of get centered where you are. See what’s here, you could journal, you could meditate, you can listen to music, you could do yoga, it’s just some sort of container that tells yourself that you have a protected space that’s just for you and your own exploration, I would say space, and then I would add another one, which is really trust, to really trust that the sun is going to rise, the moon is going to come out and that your own path can unfold that you have something really important to offer that you do probably know more than you think you do. And to really entrust to really trust the way that your life is unfolding. So with a little bit of space and intention, and that trust, I think people can go a long way.

Jenn Smith  36:59  

Slowing down and listening. I love it. I think that’s great, great advice. Thank you. And as we wrap up, finally, Megan, where can people find out more about you and your work?

Megan Leatherman  37:10  

Yeah, I’m at a wild new work calm. I’m also on Instagram at a wild new work. And I would love to connect with people who feel like they are stuck and know that they want to shift into something else that feels more easeful and graceful but aren’t really sure where to start. And so yeah, I’m out here for anybody who could use some extra perspective or support.

Jenn Smith  37:34  

Thank you so much for sharing all of your inner wisdom with us today.

Megan Leatherman  37:39  

Thank you so much for having me.

Jenn Smith  37:42  

That’s a wrap for today’s episode. As always, you can find the notes from today’s episode at get Career Clarity. show.com/podcast. Talk to you next time.

Lisa Lewis Miller  37:59  

And that’s the wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally finds the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.