Episode 108: Building Career Discernment with Mark Dyson

Welcome to The Career Clarity Show, where we help you find a lucrative, soulful, and joyful career path for you!

We are talking about in this wild world of career change and career discernment, how to make sure that you land within an organization that honors your values, hopefully even aligns with some if not all of your values, and feels good to be in. And If you have ever been on a job search, whether as a part of a career change or not, you know that it can be difficult to land a job within an organization that honors your values and feels good to be in. It can feel really hard to be external to an organization and try to secretly figure out what it’s like to be there. You’re likely asking questions like these: What are the individuals like? What is the company culture like? What does management feel like?

There’s so many considerations that go into finding a great place to work where you feel like you fit. On today’s episode of the Career Clarity Show, I am delighted to bring on expert, Mark Dyson, in all things job search and career where we will be diving deeply into this question of how to find the kind of organization that truly fits who you are, respect to your values, respects and honors your identity and creates a space for you to thrive. So if you have ever wanted to find a really, really good, great place to fit, but haven’t been sure about what the steps are or the right questions to ask along the way, you should definitely keep listening to this episode. 

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• The Voice of Job Seekers
• LinkedIn: Mark Anthony Dyson
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript:

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host. And each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host, Lisa Miller. And on today’s episode of the podcast, we are talking about how to find a place that you fit. We are talking about in this wild world of career change and career discernment, how to make sure that you land within an organization that honors your values, hopefully even aligns with some if not all of your values, and feels good to be in. And if you have ever been on a job search, whether as a part of a career change or not, you know, sometimes that could be a hard thing to find. It can feel really difficult to be external to an organization and try to secretly figure out what it’s like to be there. What the individuals are like, what the company culture is like, what management is going to feel like, and if you’re going to feel the way that you want to feel within that organization, whether that is feeling respected, whether that is feeling like your, your identity is honored, and seen and cherished and appreciated. Whether it’s finding a manager, where you feel like you vibe well and you’re empowered to do your best work. There’s so many considerations that go into finding a great place to work where you feel like you fit. And as a white woman, I will tell you, I don’t even know the half of it, because there are some challenges that I don’t have to face that people have different identities absolutely do. So on today’s episode of the Career Clarity Show, I am delighted to bring on an expert in all things job search and career where we will be diving deeply into this question of how to find the kind of organization that truly fits who you are, respect to your values, respects and honors your identity and creates a space for you to thrive. So if you have ever wanted to find a really, really good, great place to fit, but haven’t been sure about what the steps are or the right questions to ask along the way, you should definitely keep listening to today’s episode. Our guest on today’s episode is Mark Anthony Dyson. The voice of jobseekers is the platform of compassionate career and job expert Mark Anthony Dyson. He’s a prolific writer, speaker and podcaster and his award winning blog and podcasts are a rich source of information for anyone exploring the job market. He is always hacking and reimagining the modern job search. And he’s the author of the ebook 421 modern job search tips for 2021. He’s been featured in Forbes, Business Insider, Inc. Best company and LinkedIn news live with Andrew Zimmern. Mark, welcome to the Career Clarity Show. Thank you for having me, Lisa. It’s an honor to be here. Thank you. Well, I am delighted to have you here because I’ve admired your body of work for a long, long time. And I’m curious to start us out for today. What got you curious about careers? Why did you lean into this area of expertise? Well,

Mark Dyson  3:38  

I’m one who’s was kind of abnormally born into this space, I didn’t come in the most usual way. And that happened by accident. And then was like 2008, maybe 2007. I was writing resumes to folks and and people like them people like what I did with them, is I look back now I probably do that a whole lot more differently and take a different approach. But nevertheless, it was something that I did something that was fun. Some of it was for extra cash. And my brother in law came to me said, hey, my wife and I were thinking that you should start a company and that you should name it competitive resumes. So what I do, I named it competitive resumes. And I start to also figure out and at that time, I was trying to figure it out. How would I you know, you know, handing out flyers is kind of old, and and spending money on marketing is kind of crazy. What would I do? Well, that’s when I also discovered podcasts and social media and been listening to a whole bunch of them. I mean, I love music and I listened to a lot of music. But for a long time podcasts have replaced the music that I listened to. And every single opportunity I got a chance to listen to podcasts and I would go on I read one of the blogs that whoever said was to read and kind of filtered through a lot of stuff and ended up, you know, doing that and got a couple of nice contracts. And what I use at that particular time, I thought was pretty nice. One was to work as a third party consultant to the, to another consultant company that was very much associated with the army. In fact, the leader of that company, was a lieutenant general Brigadier. I think that’s how it’s pronounced, I probably picked that up as well. But nevertheless, he was a special assistant to Bill Clinton. And so of course, I got it, I got a chance to interview and go through their process, and I got in. And that allowed me to travel, they allowed me to coach that allowed me to write a whole ton of resumes, which was great, made a nice chunk of change at that particular time, along with the other contract with somebody who was working with people, for the city of Chicago, so I got a chance to do a lot there. So it was quite a wide variety of resume writing I was doing. But then there was what so you know, as you can get into the online world, you began to discover some a wider facet that this whole world is out here, and was becoming unsure where my voice would actually fit and where it would actually make the most sense. So I eventually started writing articles on my own blog. Now, I wish I would have set it up a little bit differently. To get a little bit more, just a little bit more traffic. But actually, if people ran across it, and I tell you, the first time I wrote this blog write, I wrote an article with my thoughts, and I got exactly what it’s like. And then I shared on Facebook, and it was exciting this first time we did it. And you know, I work diligently on that thing. Well, the software wasn’t quite up to par, it didn’t keep any of the spelling and grammatical changes I made. So person said, your ideas are fine, but all those spelling errors.

Mark Dyson  7:29  

And I’m quite bullish about about spelling and grammar. And so it’s like I did all that work for only for nothing. But you know, that’s just a story aside, but I kept going, and I kept writing, and I kept writing. And as funny as you begin to put content out there, you also begin to find people who are like minded like you and be able to connect with them. And to even, and I realized that I connected with CubeSat. Boy, I’ve got a really up my game here. There are people that that were writing for US News and World Report people writing for Forbes, it’s like a, there’s no way I’m going to stack up against this kind of content. And I figured, well, I’m just going to put it out there. And we’ll see what happens. So all that to say that that journey, you know, I guess I’ve gotten to mind because I like to listen to your podcast on thought leadership from this, from this past week. Beginning you do this just this past week. So you know, it was one thing led to another we’re rad landed the voice of job secret. Somebody sent me a note on Twitter, he says, thanks for being the voice of job seekers. I said, huh? There’s something about that. So I started this blog, the voice of job seekers, and I loved the voice that I was able to carry over that it was just a different thing. So you know, eventually, I dissolved the resume company, and decided to go all in on the voice of job seekers as a block. And, you know, as going on is going on, let’s see, this would be the 10th year, the end 700 and plus articles, including podcasts and videos and things like that. So that’s kind of how I landed here. I know, abbreviate the last half. But I think the beginning was pretty important.

Lisa Lewis Miller  9:33  

Absolutely. Well, I love that. You found your space by just continuing to serve and put content out there and try to be helpful and you’ve had people come to you every step of the way and say, Mark, this is great. Have you done this or thank you for being this or have you tried this? And it’s it’s such a beautiful testament I think to that the caliber and the quality of the work that you do and I know that right before we hit record, we were talking about some of your your writing and your marketing initiatives and how you’ve really been focusing in your medium articles on specifically what it’s like for people of color to be thinking about job searching, to be thinking about finding companies that will support them and practice diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging strategies to make you feel like, like you fit and like you’re supposed to be there. And I think that this is an area that people of color have for a long, long time known is an issue. And I think that that some of us who were living in ignorance in the white community didn’t realize how bad it was, it didn’t realize how different it was. And so I’m wondering for our conversation today, can you start if there’s somebody listening who doesn’t know, or didn’t realize that there is a different experience for job seekers of color? How would you best characterize what some of the differences are,

Mark Dyson  11:08  

I would say is the difference between I mean, there’s a lot of different layers. And it’s not just one particular difference. But of course, it’s the is sort of like a client that I had a university A few years ago, they asked me to do something on diversity of come speak at the school. So I had to go and of course, I was doing the research and preparing my my speech, it was going to be an hour and a half long, it was sort of like a lunch and learn expanded edition. And so what happened was, I found this, as I googled the university in Google, some of the people I found that there was this poster that went around the internet for a long time, I kind of missed it when it first went out. But there is the starting this finishing the three people in the race. And at the finishing line, was this white guy in a briefcase he finished first. And I think there was a, there was somebody else who second, and this black person was stumbling behind the third. And that’s sort of like what the perceived notion is, is that we’re always perceived as black people and people of color are perceived as always behind. And that school got roasted. I mean, big time on national news. I mean, if you know anything about Bill Mauer, he had a deal day on that, and I won’t mention the school because it was a great experience of speaking to that. But I learned a lot. And I would say that i would i would picture it is that is that the perception has always been that, you know that, you know, black people and people of color have to come behind, and we just can’t come in close second, or third, we’ve got to be stumbling is that I don’t think their intention was to signify that. I think, however, their background and where they’re located. And the makeup of that particular school speaks to that story, that poster and I think that’s where a lot of people feel, feel the outrage, and that feeling continues to piss persist, because it’s not something that just hacking happens in academic world, and in the personal world happens in corporate world. And nobody has to tell you say, Yeah, you’re second class citizen or third class citizen, you’re treated that way. And those are images that reflect that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  13:49  

Yeah, it’s, it’s the kind of thing where, if you haven’t experienced it yourself, it can be hard to believe that that’s the experience that other people have. But when you hear the experiences of other people, and you realize, oh, that absolutely wasn’t microaggression that absolutely once tokenizing that absolutely was being disrespectful of a cultural tradition that’s really important to you, or a religious tradition that’s important to you. It, it can become really clear how just existing and being yourself in a corporate space has different layers of challenge and different layers of almost even psychological risk. that come along with it that shouldn’t

Mark Dyson  14:37  

Yeah, yeah, it is a cycle. It’s not only just it’s not just taxing, and as far as always feel like that this is disadvantage, but it’s that poster was in a, you know, a passive, passive attack on people of color and their cultures that are so that there’s associated with, that’s the way that if if White people are, are trying to build that bridge to, you know, to be to be impartial, and to be anti racist, because racist is actually the norm. You know, anti racism is the is the extraordinary, and it’s not good enough to just be passive. How would you like it, if somebody that loved you just said that they liked you, you love them, that that’s quite hurtful. And in most people would take an exception to that, especially if you’ve been in a relationship with that person for a long time. I think in even the extreme when we talk about the heritage and race and, and and those lines being drawn, we’re not even talking people who hate you, I can deal with easily people who hate you, because you know exactly where they are, you know exactly where the stand, they don’t want to see you or look at you. I’m cool with that, believe it or not, what I don’t get it, people say that they love you, hey, every time that there are, there is something bureaucratic, you know, workplace related political place, where people are, then all the sudden they become they have this divisive behavior. And they don’t realize this divisive, that’s where it becomes old, that kind of hurts. And for a lot of us, it was people who we had broken bread with, and, you know, with the parties with and hung out with. And now when it comes to these subjects come up and and things like that you’re all the sudden you feel indifferent towards my people, maybe you don’t towards me, but when you do my people, you also do me. And that’s where the lines get drawn. And I don’t know how long we can actually, you know, keep saying things a nice way. Yeah, I

Lisa Lewis Miller  17:08  

think I think what you’re saying is really important. And I think it’s hard to hear. Because I mean, what I’m interpreting in what you’re saying is that the people who are externally very clearly racist or discriminatory, like you can you can sort of deal with because you can compartmentalize and push them to the side. But it’s, it’s the people who may not realize, who don’t think that they’re racist, the ones who say, Oh, I have black friends, or Oh, my neighbor and the people who, who don’t realize that it’s not just about having one friend that belongs to a certain ethnic group. It’s about creating policies and making decisions that are fair and equitable and inclusive, and aren’t creating unnecessary burdens. Be the burdens of proof be the emotional burdens on one group versus another.

Mark Dyson  18:02  

Yeah. Again, the I think the romance, the romance analogy, kind of crosses all, all parts of life. You know, you have an argument with you have a bad argument with someone, and they never really apologize, but they send you flowers, the flowers are now extension extension front in front of your eyes. And that’s the way a lot of people in color and black people feel is that they feel like you know, you, we had these differences, and you just want to make up and kiss kiss without talking about bridging the gap of where we need to be on the same page so that I can feel loved. If you’re not willing to have that conversation, I Dr. sincerity and sending the flowers, if that make sense.

Lisa Lewis Miller  18:57  

Absolutely. Well, and I think it’s one of the reasons why the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion work that happens within companies can sometimes come across as being a little bit hollow. When when a company will say oh, we’re sending $50,000 to the George Boyd justice fund. But we’re not paying anybody to be part of our employee resource group on how we create more equitable experiences, or we’re not bringing in consultants to make sure that we are pulling biases out of our hiring or retention practices.

Mark Dyson  19:29  

Yeah, yeah. Not everybody’s gonna be Starbucks, right? In the sense that, you know, they’re going to say we’re going to make sure that everybody is getting paid. Take care of your own first. I’d rather you take that $50,000 and give it to Susie, who has the same position as john and and but yet she’s making $5,000 less. That’s why I rather you pay that money to rather than give it to George Floyd because that means you’re taking care of home. Again, using the robots issue, if I paid a compliment to another woman better than the one to my wife, she’s gonna take exception to it. That’s just the way it is. So it’s the same difference. And you know, I used this before, and somebody got deeply offended. I said, Well, first of all, I’m 60, I’ve been married 30 years, I know exactly what I’m talking about. And if yours is not like mine, then you’re going to have the problem, not me. But ultimately, this is the this is the way it works. And you know, it works this way. And you know, all the sudden, that person got really quiet for a long time. In fact, they’re still quiet. But you know, all that to be said, you know, the truth is hard to hear when it comes to that, because you are not as a black person, when you’re talking to another white person, or even a white person talking to another white person, you’re not just talking about them personally in how they feel about you. You’re also facing addressing, perhaps centuries of passive racism, and white supremacy. And when we get into those terms, that’s where it gets a little uncomfortable. When you’re talking to somebody about their family, that Grandma, you know, who never acknowledged race or anything, may have been a racist, or that you know, your dad who made all these jokes about people of color, that didn’t look like him, and always did it, you took notice, but he might have been a racist on that say, I’m just saying that, that that’s a conversation that’s tough to hear. So when we bring that to the workplace, you’re not just saying, well, I need you to respect me during work. Unfortunately, those kinds of those lines kind of, you know, go away. They’re thinking about what happened, you know, they may not think about, they may say, Well, that was in the past. But you know, that also could have been your dad, that could have been your mom, that could have been your grandma, that could have been your great, great grandma.

Lisa Lewis Miller  22:15  

Yeah, I feel like there are there are two important points that are coming clear for me hearing what you’re saying. And I think number one is that as a person of color, sometimes you have to be responsible. Not not by your choice, but sort of, you’re sort of forced into being responsible for what people believe about anybody who looks like you. And that you have a burden. That’s an unfair burden, to to be answering for something bigger than just yourself as an individual. And that’s hard. And that’s painful, and that’s unfair. And what I’m also hearing is that, for those of us who are, who haven’t belonged to a marginalized identity, there’s some real deep soul searching and looking in the mirror that’s required to make sure that you are not carrying along generational trauma, generational beliefs, generational racism, or biases and perpetuating them through your own life through your own decisions through your own jokes, through the way that you’re looking at different people within your organization.

Mark Dyson  23:25  

Yeah, it when it comes to job search, you know, microaggressions, being maligned, and being looked at as unequal happens way before, happens way before someone is considering your name. And it happens after you press the button to apply or send the resume or try to get the referral. in between there, there’s a lot of things that actually happen. If you hit my name is Mark is really simple. If, if my name was Mark keys, that might be a little bit more palatable now, but 30 years ago, that was considered spelled wrong. So you know, all those things, as slight as those differences could be. That’s where people, that’s where a lot of people live. And that’s where a lot of black people don’t cross those lines, and don’t make it to the C suite. And still don’t make it to those leadership positions. Because Because somebody couldn’t pronounce your name. That’s how insidious it is. But that’s what racism has done. And that’s why it affects the black job search as a black person goes and they had to consider all these things a lot. We have this argument the few years back even about how older people and that’s another area we can get into painted. I’m 60 years old, but we’ll go there right now. But you know, the whole idea that, that an older person shouldn’t do a video, resume or present themselves on video because that’d be bias, well, you know, being black, you had that automatically, that’s automatically there, especially if you’re using LinkedIn or is any of those social networks of people looking to hire, they’re looking past you, because that person, the other end, more than likely is white and is looking for somebody like himself or herself. And that’s where we get into all these different sciences where we don’t have to cover that. Now think is necessary. But I do think that as we’re talking about being strategic, those are the things that got thought that I said, Go into right now, how someone black is going to approach your job search from now on. For two, according to job advice, recent job seeker nation survey, just released this past week, is sitting there 42% of people and they didn’t say black people, they just said people will not take a job. If the company’s diverse, that’s the highest it’s ever been, in their studies think it was compared to 36%, two or three years ago. And I think that numbers even a little bit higher when it gets down to it. And I think that’s where black people now are saying that I’m only gonna look at companies that have people in leadership that look like me, and that I’m accepted that they’re hiring, and that referrals, not a big deal. Because I’m black, because there’s somebody there are the people there that don’t be supportive of me when I get there. Well, let’s

Lisa Lewis Miller  26:44  

let’s talk about how to be screening for organizations that are going to be supportive, because you were just talking about ageism and age discrimination, we’ve been talking about racism, there’s so many other layers of bias or discrimination that can come against individuals, whether it’s sexism, whether it’s discrimination on sexual orientation on any other dimension, just like you were talking about, it can be exhausting to be a person who carries that identity and have to deal with the microaggressions the biases, the being discounted. So knowing that you are as you have been dubbed the voice of job seekers, how do you encourage people to find places where they won’t have to carry that exhausting burden every day?

Mark Dyson  27:37  

Thank you for asking, and this is the job search process has to be a very thoughtful one. It’s not something you should wait for, when people are when you’ve been laid off or fired. In fact, I would even say that you put yourself months behind, because that moment happened and you’re unprepared. I have been throwing around the mantra for almost two years now that job search is a lifestyle. At first it was meant that you are looking at your that you have to do things in your life to prepare along the way. Even if if you have feel like you have this secure job. The people of Bear Stearns back in 2007 all got surprised, and were unprepared. And some of them spent two or three years in limbo. I know I talked to them during the Great Recession. And they were surprised they thought they had also checked and you know even more so now with the pandemic, people in the hotel and and reservation hotels, meeting planners, all of them, they got thrown off and weren’t prepared, and some of them are still unemployed to this day. Now, good news is we may see a surge. But all that to say that a job search within at what I meant then a couple years ago is that you need to always be in job search mode. Now is kind of broaden is that what does job search and lifestyle mean to my values and how those values will come and play to the next employer. And all those things, everything from religion, to your race. Those things matter in your next employer. And there’s ways that you can look at it and you can look at you could kill the Hank low hanging fruit by looking at all the organizations if you’re black, I’m looking at all the organizations that don’t have people that like me. Those low hanging fruit that’s a no brainer. And you could check out the LinkedIn pages of the company. You can go to the website to see what they’re if they have a board chairman’s or management people folks that look like you doesn’t matter what color you are, but it What are these? Is this company supporting? People call it? Do they really? Are they really trying to blur the lines between race and heritage? and religion? Those things with those things and parents with they celebrate me? Should I prove to be a winner, what they reward me with they reward me equally along with everybody else. Those are questions you have to get deep on. Before you start your job search is best because really people, most people have started job search when they’ve been fired, or they’ve been let go. This is the point I’ll worry about all that way later. You need to think about salary, salary and what salary you want in and what benefits you want before you go out there. All this is part of the job. So it’s just a lifestyle. That’s critical going from this point on. And if you’re if you’re ignoring it, you’re gonna find yourself light, light years behind everyone else who is doing it.

Lisa Lewis Miller  31:05  

Thinking about job search as a lifestyle is exciting to me, because of the work that I do but probably sound a little horrifying to some of the people listening to this thinking, Oh, my gosh, job search is exhausting. It takes so much energy and time and initiative. What do you mean, mark that I’m supposed to be doing this all the time?

Mark Dyson  31:29  

Yeah, I know. You know, somebody told me that, that I was going to run track and field for the year, and that somebody was always going to have a 20 yard start on me is horrify. But having said that, you can either set that or you could find ways to is to, to move up. And one advantage you have is that you have everything that you access with your mobile phone, your mobile phone is the great catalyst and the equalizer and all this while you’re waiting in a shopping in line at a store, or you’re waiting at home, online, with whomever on a zoom call, whatever. You could be looking reading articles, you know, listening to the podcasts, maybe you might want to have that in the background while you do other things. There’s no way that you should let this moment go by. And the next 10 years go by as job search is in your hands literally.

Lisa Lewis Miller  32:37  

I back early, early in my professional career, I was interning at an organization called the network for teaching entrepreneurship. And we had somebody from our leadership who was on a panel. So I went to go see his panel. And there was an incredible woman, I can’t remember her name, she was the head of not the head, but she was in leadership at an HBCU. And she said so succinctly. You know, in this economy, you either pivot or you get pivoted. So if you want to be in the driver’s seat, and you want to have some modicum of control, and choice and autonomy and where you go, you got to be proactive, you’ve got to be thinking about things because you do not want to be caught unaware, you do not want to be pivoted and not feel like you have been cultivating relationships and options for what could be.

Mark Dyson  33:31  

Yeah, yeah, it is quite a challenge when you talk about motivating people to start thinking about what the next job is when they love their current one. But if you really love your current one, you’re looking for ways and opportunities to be better at it. That will serve your next job search even just something as simple as that. And it’s something that you can do. Like I said you could do at home anytime. You know when I started my business as much as I loved NCIS and love the series, though I haven’t seen an episode in about the last eight or nine years, because my focus is in on expanding my knowledge and being better and looking, trying to look for what what things will look like next 235 years. That’s what you do as an entrepreneur and that’s what you need to do as a job seeker now because it is it people already doing what I’m talking about is not that I’m presenting this great, this fantastic new idea that somebody who’s working virtually at home and a full time job during the during the day and they’re also have a side gig of business or have even a part time job because they can’t they need to pay for insurance you know for for their lives. And they do that virtually as well. But as well as I’ve seen people use that part time gig to learn something else, even in the form of volunteer work. So, you know, having said that, you might as well have worked places where your values align as much as they possibly can, no place is going probably half 100% of what you want. But there should be some things that are gonna be basic, and for people who are black and people or people of color, you know, people that look like them. That is the top of mine. And they’ll say no, and I’ve seen, I’ve seen people say no to good offers, because the company really does, it hasn’t shown interest in welcome welcoming them and rewarding them as they do great jobs.

Lisa Lewis Miller  35:48  

Mark, I think that’s so important. And the tip that you’re giving about doing your research and doing some digging on an organization to see visually, what the composition of their employee body looks like, is so important. And we had Brittany Cole on the podcast, and I’ll see if I could put the link to Brittany’s episode in the show notes. And she talked about that one, too. Yeah, that the visual cues are, you know, it’s not a perfect indication that you’re going to be walking into a space that is welcoming and inclusive. But it’s a good proxy to let you know that you’re off to a good start, and you’re on the right foot. But Mark, let me ask you this. Because I think that a lot of organizations, no, diversity is important. And oftentimes, they will grab, you know, the four people of color, make sure to take their pictures and make sure to put them all over the website. So what are some of the other ways that somebody can ensure that an organization is, is walking their talk? When it comes to inclusivity?

Mark Dyson  36:52  

Good question. Glad to continue that. I would say that you if you’re a black person, if you’re Hispanic, even if you’re a Native American, there are conferences that you can go to, that you should be a part of, because one, people who work inside those organizations are going to tell you the truth in that environment for sure. But secondly, there are more organizations now that are seeking out or like Best Buy, I think it’s one of the organizations that actually they’ve taken a very thoughtful approach to recruiting and to have more diverse candidates and to have more people in leadership, I think targets another that’s being very thoughtful. I’m not saying that they’re there. But I’m saying that they’re actually starting to go and be a part of these recruiting efforts at these schools, outside of Ivy League schools. I mean, Ivy League schools are very much guilty. In the past, there’s some that have gotten a whole lot better, like Harvard, who have been terrible at recruiting black students. So I’m not so outside of that. There are a lot of other schools that are doing so. And that they’re taking the time to make sure that the access is the same. And the reason why that’s important. And that’s not just for college students, by the way, that is also for people in your audience who are, you know, mid 20s, to, to over 40 in your audience, that there are organizations that are doing it. But to get to get the inside scoop, go to those conferences, participate in those LinkedIn groups, participate in those Facebook groups, find them on Instagram, interact with them, because your job is your best chance for jobs gonna come from networking. We could talk strategies all day. But let’s just be blunt. If you’re not networking, with intention to advance your career, include it with everything else, then you’re going to miss out on some opportunities that had your name on it, and you’re not doing the work that’s necessary.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:08  

Well, I know that on the Career Clarity Show, we have been talking about networking more and more. And I personally identify as an introvert and I know a lot of my listeners do too. Alright, so then right? Tell me as an introvert yourself, how do you get yourself into the mode of networking and how do you make it enjoyable? How do you make it not a slog?

Mark Dyson  39:33  

take small steps. Take very small steps is what you can handle. Once you become comfortable with because it is like a muscle. The more you add reps and load, the more you’ll be able to expand your network over time, and that’s why you should do it. But if you’re an introvert and you wait until the bottom falls out, is so much harder than you become desperate. And you know, it comes out in some kind of way. If you’re in a good place right now, start doing those things. And think of your way Think of this as a way for you to give in to add value to someone else who is in that position, or who is that you may connect. And by doing that, trust me, it will come back to give back to you in very different ways. And there’s a lot of stories out there. There’s one set I’ve even seen heard about, where there are people who didn’t think that somebody was paying attention to their needs for help and knowing that they were gonna be laid off. And then all of a sudden, somebody comes in and says, Hey, I had this opportunity. I don’t know if you’ve been, I got chance to be on the live LinkedIn live show with Andrew Seaman. And if you ever been in that experience, it is busy. There’s a lot of people interacting, but what people are doing is that they taking that time to connect with other people. now know that during the episode that I was on their recruiters in there who’s heard people saying that I just lost my job. But this recruiter reached out to me this afternoon, in the same day. So I know it happens, it’s just a matter of you making those steps and being intentional. And saying, you know, I am not great with this networking day, but at least can at least interact. With one person that I see that is making great comments online, or somebody that you’ve been introduced to say, hey, let me contact this person start a conversation.

Lisa Lewis Miller  41:44  

I think that there are so many things in life that function on this same principle of that you want to start the doing before you need it, you want to make friends. You want to make the friends before you need the friends. I’m sort of like an amateur hobbyist gardener who is not very good, but you got to plant the seeds. Well, well, well before you want that fruit from it. So I think that this is exactly the same thing. And I’ll say it to add a sort of editorial comment here. Sometimes it’s a little bit annoying to think about having to do activities when you don’t need them. It doesn’t feel efficient. But it’s it’s like going to the gym. It’s like brushing your teeth every morning, even if your breath is not that bad when you get up. Like you just have these habits and rituals, to develop options, develop possibilities for yourself, so that if and when you need them, they are available. And you do not have to start from scratch that very day, when you find out, you’re getting laid off or your company has been acquired, or you missed a revenue target anything like that.

Mark Dyson  42:59  

I think taking your garden analogy, you had to be willing to get your hands dirty. In order to be an effective gardener. You love the results you like eating the food. But if you if you hate it too much, where you won’t put your hands in the dirt, I’m afraid you’re not going to get the results that you want. And so that’s what people have to be willing to do. That’s not to say that you have to do the whole garden at one time, it’s okay that you do a small one to see how that goes and to learn. Learn how to cut off the parts that don’t grow, learn what makes the soil you know, thrive and for your garden to grow all of that’s needed. But you know, that’s also overtime to

Lisa Lewis Miller  43:48  

and to keep extending this this analogy I love that you’re working with here. You don’t have to garden by yourself. That’s right, you can go buy a seedling plant instead of trying to start a seed from scratch. You can get other people’s advice, you can borrow tools, you can do research and read other people’s reports on how well tomatoes grow in Colorado is climate with such a short growing season. You know, there’s so

Mark Dyson  44:14  

many things out there. Yeah, when you read that a lot of people going gardens if you really want to do it and you’re afraid to do it. You can always feed off the excitement and in what other people exude as far as their success with growing those plants and feed off of that and one day is gonna say you know, I’m tired of hearing all this. Let me go ahead and get started so that I can be a part of it as well.

Lisa Lewis Miller  44:40  

I love it. Well Mark reveals like a beautiful place to wrap up our conversation today. Get your hands dirty, get started, start planting those seeds and who knows what you will grow from that. But Mark, it has been such a pleasure having you with us here today and I’m sure my listeners feel the same way. So if people Want to get plugged into the voice of jobseekers and everything you’re creating out there where the best places for them to stay in touch?

Mark Dyson  45:07  

The voice of job seekers calm? As everything sounds no trick to the trick to spelling. You can also find Mark Anthony Dyson on LinkedIn as well.

Lisa Lewis Miller  45:18  

Wonderful. Well, Mark, thank you for being here with us today sharing your brilliance and helping empower people to know that if you are willing to do the work, you can absolutely find an organization that will support you that will practice diversity that will make you feel included, respected and feel good in your work. Absolutely.

Lisa Lewis Miller  45:46  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally find the work that fits your values and lifestyle. For the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.