Episode 103: Taking a Nontraditional Career Path with Jan McInnis

Welcome to The Career Clarity Show, where we help you find a lucrative, soulful, and joyful career path for you!

We are diving into making a career changes and a pivots into a world that is marked by uncertainty, risk, unpredictability, and a lot of fun. We’re talking about the world of professional comedy – How to get into it and how to survive being in it. This episode is for you if you have ever dreamt about taking a non traditional career path, but haven’t been sure of what it would entail or what the risks are. 

If you need a little burst of inspiration about all the possibilities that can be outside of your comfort zone, you’re going to love today’s guest, Jan McInnes. Jan is a comedian, comedy writer and keynote speaker. 

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• The Work Lady
• LinkedIn: Jan McInnis
• Episode 66: Mastering Difficult Conversations and Negotiation with Kwame Christian
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

Subscribe to The Career Clarity Show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and Google Play.

And, follow The Career Clarity Show on Facebook and Instagram — and sign up below to receive emails when new episodes come out!

Transcript:

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04  

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career.

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:30  

Hello, and welcome to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host, Lisa Lewis Miller. And on today’s episode of the show, we are diving into something that I hope will be wildly entertaining, lovely and inspirational for all of you listening. Today’s episode of the podcast is about making a career change and a pivot into a world that is marked by uncertainty, risk, unpredictability, and a lot of fun, we’re going to be talking about the world of professional comedy, how somebody got into it, how somebody survived to being in it. So today’s episode is going to be for you if you have ever dreamt about taking a non traditional career path, but haven’t been totally sure what that would look like or what it would entail, or what the risks are. Today’s episode is for you. If you’ve ever had a secret dream of getting to do something that feels more creative, but you felt really boxed in by traditional career pathing and career options. But there’s a secret part of you that’s been craving to learn a little bit more about what else might be out there. And today’s episode is for you if you need a little burst of inspiration about all the possibilities that can be outside of your comfort zone or outside of your expectations zone when it comes to exploring new and different ways to serve, and new and different ways to work in your career. Today’s guest on the podcast is Jan McInnes. Jan is a comedian, comedy writer and keynote speaker. She’s written for Jay Leno’s Tonight Show monologue, as well as many other people, places and groups beyond or on Radio TV, syndicated cartoon strips guests on the Jerry Springer show. For over 25 years, she has traveled the country as a keynote speaker and comedian sharing her unique and practical tips on how to use humor in business. Because yes, it can be a business skill. She’s been featured in the Huffington Post, Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post her clean humor, and She’s the author of two books. Jan, welcome to the Career Clarity Show.

Jan McInnis  2:28  

Hey, Lisa, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Lisa Lewis Miller  2:31  

It’s a delight to have you here. Because not only am I excited to get to pepper you with questions all about the world of comedy and entertainment and what that’s like and living vicariously through you in that way. But one of the things that the hallmark of folks on the Career Clarity Show is that they’re career changers, and they haven’t always been on the same trajectory for the duration of their career and life. So I’m curious if you’ll start our listeners out with the question of where were you before comedy.

Jan McInnis  3:02  

I was in a very dark place. No, I was I was in a good place. Actually, I was doing I was a marketing person for a nonprofit back in Washington, DC did that for about 12 or 14 years before dipping my toe into the comedy? Well, and you know, I didn’t have anybody in comedy. I didn’t have anyone entertainment that it was related to that was no. So I just I kind of had always thought to be a fun job, but never really thought I would be able to do it. Because, you know, I figured you had to have it in. So I did marketing. I traveled the country, as I do now, but I was doing more marketing working for nonprofits work for the National Academy of Sciences on the TV show planet Earth. And finally, the last event, last group I was with was a Association in the DC area for engineers and scientists. So I did that. And lo and behold, here I am. 25 years later, I’m a comedian.

Lisa Lewis Miller  4:04  

Well, I feel like I have to highlight for folks who are listening that I too started my career working in marketing at DC nonprofits. And one thing that people oftentimes find themselves really looking for and craving is, well what does a person like me go and do after this, as if there were one prescribed route that if you worked in marketing and nonprofits, then you should go into this particular thing that there’s like, here’s the secret pathway, and somebody’s got the cheat code. Somebody’s got the map. Somebody has the exact description of your future on a fortune cookie piece of paper. And what a beautiful illustration that two individuals can work in practically the exact same job, same city, exact same industry and find fulfillment and opportunities to grow and a path forward in wildly different trajectories. Just based on what makes them them. Yeah. And so I feel like the natural next question is What? Knowing that you didn’t have anybody in the industry? What on earth made comedy or entertainment? Speak to you what made it interesting?

Jan McInnis  5:18  

You know, when I was a kid, I know my dad was very unhappy with his job, but he would always come home every night and say, is the worst day of my life. And as a kid, you think, Well, why would you do that? Right? Well, then, as an adult, you get into it, and you realize, now I know why I was worst day of your life, you know, why don’t leave a job because you have car payments, and mortgages and kids and all these different financial responsibilities. So, um, you know, I just thought, I totally forgot the question. What is it again, you just want comedy. Why comedy. So I want to be a comedian. I thought community will be fun as a kid. But I didn’t know how to do it. Um, so I just started working. I remember graduating from college from Virginia Tech and sitting there at dinner with my parents and everyone a nice restaurant, and I’m thinking Now’s not the time to tell him I want to be a comedian. So I kind of stumbled it. I didn’t know about associations. I didn’t know about nonprofit work in DC. I stumbled into that. And but you know, always had the back of my head. Oh, just be fun to try comedy. So I had a couple starts and stops with it. I took a little comedy class. And after about 10 years, and in marketing, took a comedy class did great. I mean that we had to do a final exam where the teachers, mother and his girlfriend were the people who rated us and I did my little three minute spiel, and just, you know, they loved it and said, You’ve got to do this. I went up at an open mic in the 80s, which was the boom of comedy, you know, just crazy. emcees were making six figures. You know, it’s just great money. And great a great time. I went up at a local comedy club did an open mic. And I was so freaked out by the lights, I couldn’t see anything. I got off stage and I’m leaving that night, that professional comedian came over and said, You’ve got to do this, you’ve got to try this again. You because I did great. I mean, just rock. I waited, I think it was six years before I tried again, I was so freaked out. So had a lot of starts and stops. Finally, you doesn’t bug you get that thing and you’re in the back of your head. And it might take six or seven years. But you you just know you’re going to try it again. So finally I thought I’m just going to go I’m going. Going back one more time. I’m going to get this out of my system. One more open mic. I’m going to do this done. I went back on stage about five or six years after that, that open mic. I, I had a rocking set, I mean rocking and for an open mic. But there was at the time, you know, they were getting 100 people heard of open mic. And I’ve got about three minutes into my five minute act. And I couldn’t remember the rest of it. And I thought oh, voice in my head said get offstage there laughing to stop, you don’t have to go five minutes, I got offstage. And I’m sitting there thinking that was it, and having that seesaw in my brain like, but that was fun. But that’s it. You’re a marketing person, you’re not a comedian. And the emcee came over and tapped me on the shoulder and he said, Call Pat. And I said, Who’s Pat? He said, uh, she books, this club, she wants to give you some work. And in an instant, it’s everything changed. And I walked out that night thinking, this is what I’m gonna do the rest of my life. And, and it still took two and a half years to leave my day job. And it was a lot of bumps and starts and stops we’ll talk about but, you know, it’s that thing that that voice that keeps talking to you. I did in the meantime, between those seven years I between the comedy class, I had also gotten into a contest. Oh, it was Jay Leno had a big contest, searching to try to get a comedian, the Jay Leno comedy challenge, and he was going all around the country. And this is before my lap, the open mic where I decided to change everything all over the country trying to find a comedian to go on The Tonight Show. And so I sent in a tape, I didn’t know it was supposed to be a videotape. I didn’t know anything about comedy. So I send an audio tape with three minutes of jokes I wrote that morning walking around my my condo, and I got a call from the TV stations. And we’re gonna put you in one of the local contests. And I was like, how many people entered this stupid thing. And they said hundreds you got we picked you up. You’re one of 20 people. And so I got on stage. I got there that night and realized everyone but me was a professional. And and I actually did didn’t do I didn’t do the worst, which was my goal. I did well and afterwards. I got written up in the newspaper, a little one of my jokes. And so yeah, it still took another year to get onstage and do the open mic and then that’s right. My life changed. Yeah.

Lisa Lewis Miller  9:57  

One of the things that strikes me about your story That I hope resonates with folks listening is that I think a lot of us have a secret thing or a secret dream, like a little out of our head that says, you know, it would be so cool to do blah, blah, blah, or to be bla bla bla. I know, for me it was, it would be so cool to be a published author. And I wrote that down on my new year’s resolutions and my goal boards for years and years and years and years until I hit this bringing, breaking point breaking point where I thought to myself, I am not writing this down on another Year’s resolution ever again. And I had that sort of galvanizing moment of, I just need to do this. I just I can’t keep living my life in this. What if space like I just need to give it a shot and try it out? And I’m wondering if you remember, back to the days or the weeks of the month before you said yes to going on that second open mic? Yeah. Was there? Was there a galvanizing moment for you or an experience where you saw something that just made it click?

Jan McInnis  11:08  

You I think it was a buildup of pressure the whole time, and you know, people will tell you owe, you’ve got to tell somebody your dream to be account held accountable? No, you don’t. I didn’t tell anybody. And I was I felt this. You know, nobody has ever really told me. I was never the class clown. Nobody’s ever said I should be a comedian. So there was that whole, what if I say I’m gonna go to an open mic, people are gonna think I’m crazy. You know, Dan, well, that’s kind of embarrassing. You’re not, you know, and, and come to find out people did think I was funny, nobody really said anything about it. And, but there was, there was a buildup of pressure. And it just hit a point where it was, in fact, my anniversary was this past week, I think when I went up on that first open mic is the first second week in January. So I know we’re witnesses for a future event. But when we’re taping now, it’s been 25, over 25 years. And it was just this buildup, and, and I finally said, That’s it January, I’m doing this and it was it was terrifying, you know, I mean, I remember everything about walking into there to do it. And, and meeting people and, and I didn’t know the first thing about, you know, drawing names to go on. I remember drawing the first slot and thinking, Oh, my God, I have to go first. And this guy who I never saw again, ever probably because he went first he traded with me for fourth. And, you know, I got fourth. And that was all these different things that happen. But you get to him, I think you get to a point where you just go, I’m gonna explode if I go through my life. And I don’t do this. And if it bombs and you got to get to a point where it if it doesn’t work out, I can handle that more like a handle never even tried. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  12:51  

You know, that’s a big insight in and of itself, that there’s, there’s a moment where the calculus flips of, I would rather get up there and do something that is terrible than not ever give myself a shot at it.

Jan McInnis  13:06  

But the other thing that people need to remember is you feel like you have to do this one in a straight shot literally mine was over the seven year period. It wasn’t a straight shot and it wasn’t it was starts and stops and little success here a little success here. A little bit of feedback here. There wasn’t like, Okay, I’m gonna quit my job tomorrow and do it. I mean, I ran into people that were would tell me that I had a woman call me once after I was in comedy and say, I’m just gonna do this, I want to I want to get in the car with you and ride with you to all your shows. And just I was like, No, no, no, that’s First of all, I don’t want any anyone running around the country that I don’t know. With me, but that’s not how you it’s, it’s not just decide one day and do then leave everything some people can do that. But most of us can’t. But you know, some people just turn the switch off and cut the cut the cord and do it. But I think we put too much pressure on ourselves to say I’ve got to make a break, you start doing the little things around the edges. See how you feel see if the bug goes away? If you do it and you you start writing your book and you go Oh, okay, I’ve done it I’m good you know maybe that’s all you needed. Um, but maybe you realized you needed more you want more. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  14:17  

Well, what was that process like for you have going on having this incredible open mic night? And then we know that the ending of the story right spoiler two and half years later you’re doing comedy full time. But what happened in that two years appaling look like for you

Jan McInnis  14:33  

That night. Well that night I thought you know, I’m gonna be quitting in a month. It didn’t happen quite that fast. I did I have to say I was probably on stage or in a comedy club. So I started in the DC area. So there was a lot of work and it was a lot of open mics. I was probably five to six nights a week for those two and a half years. But I wasn’t you know when I would member going to driving to do MC I started getting MC working Doing MC gigs on the weekends, I’d be driving, you know, to an event or maybe a Thursday night, coming back to my office Thursday at two in the morning or back to DC two in the morning to work the next day. And doing that every weekend. So it worked. But when you, when you kind of change your focus, and you just started going, this is it, then you really start to prioritize stuff. And I realized that working late at the office in this job wasn’t, wasn’t going to get me where I wanted to go. So I was able to put some boundaries on that I had a couple of people call me about because I knew I wanted to leave my job. They didn’t know I wanted to do comedy, but they knew I was unhappy where I was. And I had a couple of people say, Look, my company’s hiring, I’ll put it in Word. And I remember one of my friends calling me and saying it was a big money job. And it was great. And she said, I will go to bat for you. And I said stop, I said, I really think I’m going to do this comedy thing. And if I take a new job, a new marketing job, I can’t, you know, I’m going to I can’t do that to the company, I’m going to can’t, I’m going to be working nights and weekends for the first year or two. And I don’t want to try that. So I it helps you prioritize once in those two and a half years, it was good. It helped me prioritize, it helped me get my ducks in a row. Financially, it helped me make contacts. It was really a very good experience. Even though I was just chomping at the bit, I think I was listening to motivational tapes every morning on the way to work, trying to get through the DC commute in trying to get my brain into this job. And you know, you’ve got one foot in and one foot out. And you don’t want to slack on the job. And I have to say I only called in sick one day, those whole two and a half years to do comedy. So because I was committed that, Okay, I’m gonna leave on a good note. And then I’m, but I’m gonna leave. You know,

Lisa Lewis Miller  16:57  

I love that. I think that what you’re sharing about prioritization is so important. Because when people know that they’re unhappy with what they’re doing, but they don’t know what the thing is, that’s next, the idea of having to make trade offs is terrifying. You don’t want to let go of anything that was good, because there’s this fear that what you might go into would be worse, or you take a hit, or you’ll never be able to recover. But once you have an idea of what you’re moving towards, it makes the prioritization and the trade off process feel. So I’ll say simple, it doesn’t always feel easy to do. But it feels really simple to see what matters and what’s important and what just isn’t as important given the scale of what you’re trying to do or where you’re trying to go.

Jan McInnis  17:46  

And I think the the key is, you have to be so excited about where you’re going that you’re not constantly looking at what you’re leaving, because I had people say you left benefits and you know, a salary. I remember the first Friday after I’d been gone for a couple of weeks, where I wasn’t getting direct deposit into my account. And it has struck me that this is it, man, what I make is what I get. But if you’re so excited where you’re going to, and you keep your head about it, and you keep based in reality that you know, you’re not, for me, it was I’m not gonna be a star overnight, or maybe never, that wasn’t really my goal. My goal was to make a great living at it, and have a regular life and do what I want to do. And I’ve done that. So you know, figure out what your goals are. And that time period, I have too many people that try to do push too hard, you know, push too hard. And one of the best bits of advice I got was from a comedian, Lord curette. This his real name he was in when I was emceeing and most comedians don’t want to emcee, it’s the low man on the totem pole slot. And he said Jan, stay in the bottom slot as long as you can stand it because you will, that’s your learning curve right there. That’s where you get all your skills. He said, when you move, many comedians push to get out of that slot, and they don’t have a good enough act, and they get stuck as a mediocre act and they don’t move forward. So if you can stay there really get good, then you can fly through the other slots. And that’s what I did. So look at your beginnings. Sure you want to move ahead, you don’t wanna stay there forever, but as the learning spot and where you’re going to get really good at what you do, and then move forward.

Lisa Lewis Miller  19:26  

Well, and there’s such value in the concept of of incubating, right of staying where you need to be, maybe for longer than you want to stay there. But to be able to refine, Polish, gain experience, gain, knowledge, gain, relationships, gain all of the assets that you’re going to need moving forward. Even though there is such a, an impatience and sort of wanting to get to the next thing,

Jan McInnis  19:52  

but think of it you’re going to work with for entertainment, but it’s really for any, any industry. People want to help you out. But if you’re at the bottom, If you’re at the top, they expect you to help them out. So I would meet, I’ve worked with more, I’m MC for bigger stars and bigger names, because I was emceeing, if I was the headliner, I wasn’t going to meet those people, I was going to work within that everyone be looking at me for a little leg up. So you know, you get a little more help at the bottom, and you get a chance to see how the the people at the top work, you get a chance to work with them. And you see how they operate. And you see what is good and bad. So we got, I had the opportunity to see how the headliners, what the mistakes they made or things they did. Right. and work with that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  20:35  

Well, and what a cool story of using your, your stage of being a beginner, right? And kind of the vulnerability of the newness of it. Yeah. And turning that into a huge asset for you.

Jan McInnis  20:46  

Oh, for sure. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  20:47  

Yeah, it can be so easy to look at yourself in the beginner stage. And especially for perfectionist and I performers who are used to getting things right on the first try. It’s so easy to get inside of your head and say, Oh, well, this wasn’t as perfect as it could have been the first time therefore it is not worth the time or it’s not worth the practice, it’s not worth the effort. It’s not worth the reps. Man. What you’re sharing so beautifully in your story is that there’s so much virtue and value in the practice runs. And in being a beginner and sort of relishing that time at the bottom. When you can, you can almost be invisible, and just be planned and absorb everything else so that you set yourself better up for arriving for growth. When you can ask stupid questions.

Jan McInnis  21:34  

You can ask people how they did stuff, because first of all, they also don’t see you as a threat, they’re more willing to share if you’re at the bottom. So really use that as your information gathering time. And, and don’t put so much pressure on yourself to move fast. You know, take the opportunities. I mean, I certainly moved into opportunities when they came when I came across them if I even if I wasn’t ready if I thought I could get ready for them. And be ready in that, you know, because I went from the comedy clubs into the corporate market. And I kind of moved that that way that it wasn’t necessarily 100% ready when I was asked to do you know, an hour to a corporate event. But I figured a way to do it and moved into that market and now into the keynote. So

Lisa Lewis Miller  22:22  

well readiness is such an interesting concept. I’m loving this direction for the conversation because people and I think people who identify as women in particular, can put some huge pressures on themselves, to be perfect to be ready with a capital R to have already done the thing that they’re being asked to do, even though they feel really motivated by growth and learning and wanting to get these sort of stretch opportunities. And I’m wondering if you ever found yourself in a position of talking yourself out of, of stretching growth opportunities under the auspice or under the guise of not being ready.

Jan McInnis  23:04  

Um, I have to say I, um, I turned down a couple of times. When one club in particular they asked me to headline and I, I said, Oh my god, I can’t. I’m scared. And I was talking to Kathleen Madigan, who’s huge comedian and we became friends. And she said, Jan, you know, you just, you You ready? I mean, there’s you’re doing as well or better than these feature acts and and you need to move. And so I did first said no, but you know, someone keeps asking you saying you got to you got to do this, you got to do this. And finally I was like, Okay, let’s try it I was I more took the more risks, saying yes to things I probably wasn’t as ready for but I knew I could get there. I didn’t just take stuff saying Oh, I can’t do it. I know what the hell I’m gonna do when I get there. I knew I could do it. Like the corporate stuff I knew I could do an hour of because I was a fast writer. And so I knew I might not have the the act totally there for corporate. But I could write jokes about the group and start off with 15 minutes on them. And I can fill that gap so and I did and it worked out great. So same with keynotes, you know, someone said we need a message and in back in 2008 I think it was getting pretty bad for the economy. And people said, you know, companies were saying we want to comedian but I really need to justify it. So you got to put a message in your in your comedy but your keynote speaker, okay, I can do that. And and then I kind of asked around and what’s what’s good change, I can write about change. So I was able to do that. So I never took an opportunity that never jumped on something that I wasn’t ready for that and think I could get there. Then I only turn down a couple of times headlining before I was really pushed into a you Gotta do it, nobody’s gonna want to work with you. I want convenience, and no one’s gonna want to work with you, Jan, because you’re doing better than the headliner, and they don’t want to follow you, you’re gonna, you know, you got you got to do it. So, you know, sometimes you’re, you’re forced into things and it works out great, you know? Well,

Lisa Lewis Miller  25:16  

I love the fact that you would say yes to things, and become ready, become the person who could do it in the process. And I was on the Career Clarity Show, we had a guy who I loved interviewing, his name is Kwame Christian, we had him on the podcast, and he talked about doing the exact same thing of putting himself into essentially high pressure learning environments. I’m gonna say yes, to teach this class or for you, I’m gonna say yes to do this corporate speaking gig. And I know, I’ll be able to scramble and hustle and figure out how to do it. And I will put myself in the position of learning in a sort of time bound deadline kind of way. Because I know, I trust myself to be able to figure it out. I know, I’m a good learner, I know, I’ve got the component parts on the tool and the pieces that I just will need to put together into a brand new way. Right. And I love thinking about this. These sort of, I don’t know if we’d call them risky opportunities, or stretchy opportunities, opportunities for growth instead of opportunities for failure or falling on your face.

Jan McInnis  26:24  

Yeah, and I would say, you know, make sure it’s something you have wanted to do. Like, I wanted to get into corporate, I wanted to get in the keynotes. And I had seen that as kind of, if it’s something you really don’t want to if someone said, you know, Jan, do a funny keynote on accounting, I’d say no, I don’t have any interest in that. And I don’t know anything by Kenny and I can’t figure it out and time to do that. So it’s got to be something that’s kind of in your, your, your perimeters of what you’re working on already. And somewhere you’d like to go, you know, and because we’re going to put the time into it, and it’s something you’ve done, like I’ve done, I’ve done speeches before. I mean, I’ve been a marketing person, so I figured it wouldn’t be that that hard. So, you know, you gotta weigh all the different things, but don’t turn things down, because it’s a stretch. And be careful what you turn down. You know, really, but but turn stuff down? If it’s if it’s not, right. Yeah, absolutely turn stuff down. You know,

Lisa Lewis Miller  27:25  

I mean, it’s time. Totally, it sounds like the bottom line is, Know thyself, right, have no point of view have a position on these are the ways in which I want to stretch and grow? These are the things I’m not terribly interested in. So it can make the decision making process of, do I say yes to this growth strategy opportunity? Or do I say no, thank you and pass are really, really easy and sort of unemotional and that way.

Jan McInnis  27:51  

And also, I think everything morphs like when I started as a stand up comedian in comedy clubs, I had no thoughts. It wasn’t what I thought about corporate, I did think about it. But you know, I didn’t know how to get there. I really didn’t think about keynote speaking, I just that wasn’t even on the radar. And I think as you go through your career, it morphs and changes and you find these opportunities, and make sure you’re open to them. Every opportunity I got was because I was working at my current, you know, in my current profession, doing the work day in day out, and things came across, you know, crossed my path. You know, I was driving to a gig in New Jersey, when I call the guy in I was at a comedy club to try to get work and he said, No, I don’t work at the comedy. I don’t know when the comedy club anymore. I sold that to my partner, I do the corporate. Are you clean? I said yes. He said, you do want to do corporate I said yes. And he helped me get he was one of the people that helped me get into corporate. Um, so you know, by working day in and day out, you kind of find opportunities that you didn’t know were there or that you kind of had thought you wanted to do and opens up a whole new door once you step into those.

Lisa Lewis Miller  29:06  

Well, take us back to the very beginning of your comedy career when corporate and keynotes were not even really on your radar. What did making money and making a living look like in the first sort of era of jazz? Oh, I

Jan McInnis  29:21  

loved it. Loved it. I remember going to h&r block for doing my taxes. The first year I still my day job. And he said you really should have kept some receipts. Because Because I’d been doing comedy for six months. And I looked at him and I said, You have no idea how excited I am that I made a nickel in comedy. I mean, I never thought I would. So that was fun. A lot of i didn’t i didn’t bomb for the first few months. So I didn’t get that until I started doing bar gigs and working with these professionals in these, you know, bars and one nighters they call them and then I kind of realized, okay, this is where the real it’s really hard. If people don’t want clean in there, a lot of the crowd is drunk. And a lot of them don’t know that there’s going to be comedy. And it was a different situation. So that was another learning experience because I realized, I’m not good at them at bar gigs, these aren’t what I want to do. Right before I left my day job, I had been putting together a big event for corporations. And we hired the capital steps, which is a comedy troupe in DC. And I remember paying them and seeing what I was paying them. This is 25 years ago and thinking, Okay, there’s gotta be, there’s gotta be some money here for comedians in this corporate environment. And I asked around the comedians, and they allowed us just Christmas parties. And I kept saying, No, but I think there’s more. And so you kind of keep your your feelers out for that. But the, the, it was fun, I remember the day I left my day job, I ran a stop sign. Because I was so excited, the cop pulls me over, like, I don’t care, give me a ticket, I’m so excited. I’m out of here, you know, I’m and, and then, you know, the first Monday, after I left my day job standing in my living room, my condo in Alexandria, Virginia and thinking, I will give up everything I own, just keep working on my own goals. I never want to work for somebody else again. And I thought, well, I could even sleep in. And I thought, you know what this job now is a job. And and that’s another thing, you know, when you’ve been working on something for a couple years on the side, all of a sudden, my kind of hobby, if you will, became a job, so you got to find other things to take the place of the hobby, otherwise, all you do is work. And people don’t think about that. But it was it was it was exciting. And it was before we had AOL dial up, there was no you know, websites or anything like that are good websites anyway. And so it’s a whole different animal, you send out VHS tapes to then the marketing was just so cumbersome, and expensive. You know, you’re mailing out VHS tapes, and you’re calling on the phone and using a little calling card and you know, getting booking that way near the answering machines even to call in from the road to get your bookings. And it was just an exciting time and meeting the clubs and drought. I remember driving into Chicago The first time I was working in zanies in downtown Chicago, driving into Chicago looking around going I am a comedian in the comedy club in this huge city. It’s It was fun, you know, really fun and and then you know, every every step of the way it’s just been fun and exciting and a lot of downs you know, not a lot but you know yep ah bad nights you have you make mistakes. You know, you call somebody and you’re not you’re supposed to be calling on Wednesdays not Tuesdays, you didn’t listen or, you know, you have things that you did wrong. What’s the song by Billy Joel, the entertainer, the things I didn’t know at first, I did learn by doing twice. That is a very good lyric. Because that’s a good lyric for entertainers, or anyone that goes out on their own. Expect mistakes and the unexpected. Don’t put a lot of pressure on yourself, don’t beat yourself up. realize what you could have done better and you’ve got to let it go and move on. bombing on stage you’ve got to let it go and move on and bombing and your, whatever your professional is making mistake with the client. If you dwell on that you will drive yourself insane and drive yourself out of the business.

Lisa Lewis Miller  33:16  

So it sounds like the first era was full of bombing making mistakes, doing things for the first time being a beginner, working a lot of clubs having a lot of piecemeal, where your ability to eat that month depends on how many gigs you have booked doing a lot of success.

Jan McInnis  33:33  

I mean, I was getting booked back so you’re not you can’t you get fast you get good fast in this business or you or you don’t eat so you know I learned bar gigs are great I got to do them because they kind of fill in the blank the the gap money gaps, do the best you can and realize it’s not my crowd and and don’t take those to heart you know worry about doing really well on the comedy clubs where you’re working with the big names and you’re working with the the more bigger professional so you know figure out again prioritize

Lisa Lewis Miller  34:07  

so it sounds like that that prioritization era of bar gigs and clubs and all these different things was one season of what this career in comedy look like. What about the season where you are working with Leno?

Jan McInnis  34:20  

I was I was selling freelance to him actually. Um, so I was on the road he used to have a fax machine back and feminists are the fax machine is and you could get the fax number if you are working comedian and faxing jokes and then you’d get a I so I would fax and jokes. I was writing for radio at the time to writing for hundreds of stations around the country just jokes for the DJs in the morning. And so I’d fax and stuff to Atlanta as well. And I remember being on the road for God’s got about two months and I came home and there’s an envelope from big dog productions which is his company and it was my first check from letto and you call up his assistant She tells you, you say, hey, it’s, you know, I think they had a word on the joke or a date on the joke. And she said, Oh, that’s the, you know, airplane joke or whatever. And so, you know, I, I got to sell to landowners and I ran into I got to meet his, I got to meet him when I moved to LA. He works at a club called the comedy magic club every Sunday, and his best friend is owner. And he introduced me to lead Oh, and then, which is great. And then I was working at Club once and his head writer was in the green room. And so I ended we met and he said, Oh, Jan McInnes, he goes, you’re one of the comedians, we actually read the jokes. Because I must have gotten hundreds of 1000s of jokes every day. So it was nice. So that was that was a very fun I learned I could write, I could make a living at writing if I wanted. I really liked being on the road and being on stage. So I didn’t pursue that outside of just freelance stuff. But then that was that was a good error is great fun to to. I was working at that was a hanging out at the improv in LA. One night where it was right around season where everybody gets their development deals. That night, I guess, just about every comedian in the club had gotten some kind of deal. Except me. You know, you’re feeling you’re driving home at 1130 at night feeling really bad about yourself. And I walk into my little studio apartment here in LA and I click on the TV and there’s Lennar doing one of my jokes. I’m like, Okay, I got something. So. So that’s a good point is to make sure that you don’t let other people make you feel bad about what they’re doing versus what you’re doing. You know, they’re on a different trajectory. Then that night, I thought, God, I’m the only one not out here getting a sitcom. And I got other stuff going on. So you got to keep them constantly remind yourself, you’ve got other stuff, you’re this way, just because they’re getting that doesn’t mean anything less for you. But it’s hard. It’s hard to you know, keep that in mind.

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:54  

Yeah, the Compare and despair mentality is a very real challenge, especially with sort of the the echo chamber that’s created through social media of seeing people achieving things and they’re showing that they’re achieving things on Twitter, and Facebook and Instagram, and on their website. And, and, and, and and, and it can feel so overwhelming to compare your insides to their outsides. And it’s so helpful to remember that you’re on your own race, you’re in your own lane. But something else about your story that I think is really important to highlight is that that season of your career in comedy was about diversification, that all of a sudden, your income was not completely coming from having to be on the road and be at gigs every single night, that you had other sources of income, you have these other opportunities to be writing for radio writing for Leno, that just giving you optionality and giving you a way to grow in a career where there’s not a traditional kind of career path where you are, you’re the the junior comic, and then the comic and then the senior comic, and then the comic is not something that seems so easy to latch on to as, as there often is in sort of more traditional corporate trajectories.

Jan McInnis  38:10  

And all those opportunities again, came because I was talking to people and working and I met comedians, who civil here you want to write for lunch? Oh, here’s how you, here’s how you do that, or you want to write for radio. You know, I was working with a friend of mine. And he said, Well, here’s how I do it. And he opened the door and got me into that. So you know, it’s it’s, you got to be out there doing your thing that you enjoy, where other things and I never thought about writing. I wrote for greeting cards I wrote for, you know, cart, syndicated cartoon strips, I’ve written sold material, everyone, because I was out there doing the work, the thing I enjoyed, and then these other little opportunities popped up. And you know, your work, I pursued them. So

Lisa Lewis Miller  38:51  

well, you were doing the work. But you were also really strategically networking. Because I think that there can be a perception that if I just put my head down, and I just do really, really good work in my vacuum that someday somebody is going to discover me, I’m gonna get my big break, and I’m gonna get a million dollars and all these things. And

Jan McInnis  39:08  

because it happens, it has happened. But it’s too like that many people you know.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:12  

And I think that your story offers up a really pragmatic perspective that the more that you do the work and talk to people and build relationships and share what you’re up to and ask them what they’re doing, the more opportunities will start to fall into your lap.

Jan McInnis  39:29  

They do. And I also have to say that you should be crystal clear. Maybe not in the beginning. But as you move through your new career, what do you really want out of it? I can’t I can’t tell you how many people have said, Oh, you’re trying to get a sitcom. Well, no, I’m not. I don’t I didn’t. I didn’t want that I didn’t. I’m probably one of the only comedians on the planet who doesn’t like working nights and weekends. Okay, so I but I found the corporate work which was not nights and weekends It was during the day and these keynotes are during the day. You And so I’m unknown, but I’ve made a phenomenal, phenomenal career, you know, now on my own home out here in Pasadena, and I’m not famous, nobody, and that’s on so fine with that you have no idea. Because I made a great career and I did what I want, I had a normal life, I have weekends off, I can travel, I can visit, do what it will not now, but eventually, I can do what I, you know, have my life as if it’s a nine to five job, and nothing wrong nine to five jobs, it just wasn’t comedy. Now it kind of is. And so you really have to make sure that when you get into something, you’re not just going with what everyone says, you have, this is how you do it. And this is where years ago, when I moved to LA, somebody said, here’s what you do. Jan, you buy this list for 300 bucks, it’s got like 500 agents, you get a gig at some bar around town and just send them all a postcard and you get them all to show up and you get an agent or manager. Okay, I did that. I got response from one agent who I knew his girlfriend and he said No, okay, so it was a total bust. And I thought this is stupid as a waste of money. And time, I’m never doing this again. And so I’ve found other ways to, to do what I wanted to do. And I realized I don’t really want I don’t really care if I’m an agent, I can do this job without an agent. So be very wary of looking at a cookie cutter path that everyone says this is how you do it. Even something as obscure as entertainment, there are still people saying this is how you do it. You got to get a manager, you got to get an agent. And you can’t have a good career unless you do that. Well. Yeah, you can. So keep your eyes open for how else do you do something that doesn’t require the standard way that everyone does it. because trust me, there are 1000s people doing the standard way and you know, works, it doesn’t work. But for me, it didn’t work. And it was a waste of time and money. And I just thought I’m gonna find something else I’m gonna wait to make, make my make my living.

Lisa Lewis Miller  42:06  

Well, and you know what’s so interesting and beautiful about that is that before you have taken the leap, before you’ve taken your first gig before you put yourself out there, you can’t imagine doing things on your own terms, right? To impossible it feels to outside of the norm, the expectation the possibly the the realm of possibilities. And I love that for your story. And I think so many people’s story. Once you’ve taken the leap, once you started to do the work, once you’ve put yourself out there once you are bombing, right, once you haven’t done it enough times to do it poorly. All of a sudden, the realm of what’s possible, starts to expand. Yeah, yeah, ility, to have leverage, and to decide what you do and don’t want and what you will and won’t do and what you will negotiate on. And what you will not trade off for anything starts to reveal itself through the doing and allows you to take a career path, like the one that you started out on, and really make it your own and define success in it on your own terms. And

Jan McInnis  43:16  

a really good example of what I did early on that, you know, we tend to feel like we got to do take every opportunity, everything. And it’s hard to put your foot down when you feel you’re being taken advantage of. or, you know, someone is not treating you right. And I had an opportunity one time where I was working in comedy club is an MC and the club owner, you know, cut our money just got and I wasn’t making much anyway, and, and this owner, oh, had a bunch of comedy clubs on the east coast. And it was a big privilege to get approved for work at these clubs. While I was driving home that night, and it was about two in the morning. And this big pink bus passes me It had Dolly on the side. Dolly Parton was passing me and I looked at that bus and I said, thought to myself, I bet Dolly wouldn’t be treated like this. And then it clicked on me and I thought I’ll have to either you don’t and it was I would did that see so in my brain about you know, Oh, I can’t work for this person. But I need the money but I’m not getting paid what I should be paid and back and forth. And finally I decided I can’t. There’s a line drawn where, you know, I just I’m not making money on I got in this business. It was very crystal clear that whole write down. I got into make money to have fun and to work with people I enjoy and I wasn’t doing anything of those three things with that person. So I decided I’d take a year off from calling them for work and and if I needed work at the end of the year, I thought I’ll grovel and get some work. That person actually called me for work at one point because I wasn’t calling was kind of shocked and I said I’m already booked. And I was because I forced me out of my comfort zone to find other work. And to say, and I don’t think that person had ever the owner had ever had anyone, it wasn’t mean, I didn’t burn the bridge, you can burn it, I’ve only burned maybe two or three bridges. And they’re very tactical. When I told someone to go to hell, I knew what I was doing. It wasn’t this time, I just, I just didn’t, I just walked away and thought I’m, I’m better than this. I need that money desperately. It was a huge, huge, when I tell you, it was deciding not to work for this person was a huge career decision. And I was making an MC not making much money, but I thought I can’t my goals are this and I can’t do this to myself. And, um, and it forced me to other opportunities forced me to and it worked out better than expected. And so when you’re crystal clear on what you want to do, and what you will and won’t put up with, you have to put up with some I mean, I put up with you know, bad pay and this and that. But after a while you at one point you go, Okay, I can, I can rise above this. And you know, I’m, they don’t have to be the one paying me but it’s going to be someone else or it’s going to be they don’t have to be the one. That’s not the relationship I want. So that gives you a lot more clarity to I love that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  46:06  

Well, Jan, this has been such a delightful conversation. And if somebody has been listening to this and wondering where they can get more of your goodness or hear a little bit more of your comedic side, where should we point them.

Jan McInnis  46:18  

To my website, theworklady.com nobody can spell McInnis so I had to come up with something. I used to do a lot of work humor. So theworklady.com. Very nice.

Lisa Lewis Miller  46:29  

Well, thank you for coming on the show and sharing the story of the different phases and stages of your career from marketing until now. All the different trials and tribulations and all the lessons learned.

Jan McInnis  46:42  

Great, thank you for having me.

Lisa Lewis Miller  46:50  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally find the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up to talk to you next time.