123: Psychology Of Career Changes with Gaj Ravichandra

We are delighted for today’s topic on the Career Clarity Show – psychology – how it impacts your life, how it impacts your choices, and how to think about using it for good and not evil. Registered Psychologist Gaj Ravichandra is here to talk about how your brain impacts career and what’s possible, what’s invisible, subconscious, unconscious, and bringing all of it to light to think about where you truly want to go and how you can make that happen for yourself. 

So if you’ve been listening to the show and you’ve been considering a career change but haven’t taken action and don’t know why, this episode is for you.

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• La

• Kompass Consultancy
• Gaj on LinkedIn
• Gaj on Instagram
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04   

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host. And each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show, I am your host, Lisa Miller. And I am delighted that you are with us today. Because on today’s episode of the Career Clarity Show, we are going to talk about a subject that I love to geek out about and that is your psychology. how it impacts your life, how it impacts your choices, how to think about using it for good and not evil, we are going to be talking about how your brain impacts career and what’s possible, what’s invisible, what’s subconscious, what’s unconscious, and bringing all of it to light to think about where you truly want to go and how you can make that happen for yourself. So if you’ve been listening to the Career Clarity Show, and you’ve been considering a career change, you’ve been on the fence, you’ve been wondering, you’ve been worrying, and you haven’t taken action, and you kind of don’t know why. Or you know exactly what you want to do, and you’ve taken action. But you find that you just can’t take the next step to apply for a job. Or maybe you feel stuck and spinning and you feel like you can’t get clarity and you don’t know what’s wrong with you and why you just can’t figure it out. If you have felt any of these things, you’re going to get some juicy, wonderful nuggets out of our conversation today. I’m delighted to bring on to the show today and expert in psychology, Gaj Ravichandra. Gaj is passionate about the future of work, and how to help guide people to healthy career paths. for 20 years as a registered psychologist, Gaj has worked across five continents to support individuals leading educational institutions, government and corporate entities to develop career management practices for a changing world. Besides being a sought after career coach with a number of top 10 business schools, he also sits on the board of block to an exciting startup developed to connect employees and employers in the new fractional employment world. Gaj has helped 10s of 1000s of people transition their careers across industry and job level. And most recently, he co created the compass career Kickstarter series, a virtual career coaching platform that brings over 50 years of career research into eight modules that support people in developing job search strategies or a life. Gaj, I’m so excited to have you. Welcome to the Career Clarity Show.

Gaj Ravichandra  3:02  

Thank you so much, Lisa, it’s great to be here. I always enjoy listening to you. So it feels a bit surreal actually, to be talking to you. So thanks.

Lisa Lewis Miller  3:10  

Well, likewise, I’m delighted that you said yes to come on the show. And knowing that you have a deep background in the world of psychology, what was it that got you interested and curious in the world of careers?

Gaj Ravichandra  3:25  

Yeah, it’s a something that actually happened to me very early on in my education. So when I was an intern, psychologist, I, you know, you get to play around with different kinds of the sides of psychology. You know, we have many disciplines within psychology. So I heard about this thing called organizational psychology. And so my first job, believe it or not, was to be similar to the ugly version of George Clooney. You know, that movie, he was up in the air where he flies around and delivers the bad news to individuals about them losing their jobs. So I was a outplacement, or career transition consultant. That’s how I started off my career. So very quickly got to know what it felt like and to empathize with people who are arguably at the lowest point in their careers when they’re told they’ve lost their jobs. And it fascinated me what people did with that information, you know, when they heard that news, and how they responded, and if you like what they did next. And that really determined in lots of ways, their success as they moved on over the next three to six months. And I haven’t really let that go since and from that moment, over the last 20 odd years, I’ve been involved in that kind of work, and even today, we’re getting involved in helping corporations letting go of people and supporting them through those transitions to finding wonderful opportunities. Yeah.

Lisa Lewis Miller  4:54  

Well, it’s so interesting to hear that outplacement and transition is where You got started because there’s a fascinating intersection point of psychology there. You know, I have spoken with so many people over the years who have been laid off. And just like you articulated their response, and what they made that mean about themselves, their capabilities, what was next for them was the number one determinant of their success. Now I have seen that moment of being let go, be psychologically crushing for people. And I’m, I’m curious to hear more about what the spectrum was of things that you saw, and what kind of a role you were playing in, in supporting them and processing and working through that.

Gaj Ravichandra  5:45  

I saw some fantastic. I mean, you have these experiences, and I call them fantastic. Now, they were not fantastic at the time, right, in terms of obviously been in and supporting people. But I’ll give you an example. In Australia, here in Sydney, we had the speedo, you know, the the, the swimwear company, right, they shut down their manufacturing plant, in sort of early 2000s. And there are seven of us that went there, to this manufacturing plant that had been there for 25 years, a number of the employees, mostly women who were in their sort of 30s and 40s, who had been working there and grown up around that manufacturing plant, lost their jobs that day. And I saw a variety of reactions from people picking up chairs and throwing them around the room when they were told in the in the mass meeting. And there were about 5060 people in that meeting, through the people sobbing, you know, through to people being catatonic and frozen, right, not knowing what to do. So you get the full spectrum of reactions. And in some cases, I would say even maybe half the cases, people have an inkling that something’s not right, right. And they know that, you know, there is a change in the behavior of leadership, for there is a greater level of pressure, or the amount of work that I’ve had to do is had to pick up something shifts and changes. And for whatever reason, we might sometimes choose to ignore those things. Right, we might choose to just keep going and doing what we do. And so it always fascinates me that, you know, where do we spend? Where do we focus our time and our energy right on things. Because sometimes it is really difficult to have to think a bit differently, and to put ourselves into positions. Because when we think differently, there’s a bit of a de stabilizing that happens to us as humans, right, there’s a instability that’s created. We don’t really like to feel unstable, right? And these stabilize, it’s not a nice feeling. And so we want to try and avoid that. So we stick to what we know. And that gives us some sense of comfort and stability. And so, you know, really going back to your question, Lisa, really the full spectrum of reactions there. What I did find was really helpful, and it was interesting. And I at the time, I didn’t quite put it into a framework or a model that I could use was that the individuals that really moved quite quickly on from hearing that news, and that that that opportunity to separate from their employer. Were the people who very quickly changed that problem into an opportunity. Right? Who, for whatever reason, in their mind decided that you know what, I’m actually in control of this situation, right? This might have happened to me in some way, but I’m not a victim. And I’m going to make a choice now, to create a plan, and to commit to a plan and to execute on that plan. And a plan requires a goal, right? So we have to kind of think in the future about where we going. And I feel like that’s where, particularly individuals, coaches like yourself, Lisa is so critical, because we do help people to come up with a plan or a Northstar or whatever we want to call it to give people hope, right, and some sort of stabilizing force in what might be normally considered a de stabilizing kind of situation. And so that part of the psychology fascinated me.

Lisa Lewis Miller  9:24  

I feel like there’s so much more to dig into there, because you talk about that the change being a destabilizing force. And so the news that you’ve been let go, is this destabilizing force, and then having to change the way that you’re thinking about your career and where you’re going to work tomorrow is another destabilizing force. So it’s like there’s this layer of instability on top of instability. And you articulated this, you know, so, so quickly, but I think it’s a really important point that when we feel All threatened in that way, because so much of what we’re used to is turning upside down. It’s really easy to go into a mindset that might be labeled as a victim style mindset where you feel like, Oh, my gosh, how has this happened to me? Why does this always keep happening to me? I am helpless. I don’t know what to do. And I’m curious. Did you notice anything in particular that helped people to flip the switch? And to step into seeing it as an opportunity? Because the the destabilization and the fears are real, right? That if you were not planning to be laid off, you might not have the savings, you might not have been networking, you might not have been thinking about what’s next?

Gaj Ravichandra  10:51  

Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good question. I think one of the elements that I found really helpful is thinking and reminding people, right, that Firstly, what they’re going through is, is, is one part of what I would call their self map, right? All of us have mapped ourselves based on a whole bunch of features, whether it’s, you know, the occupation that we have, whether it’s our family, our friends, our education, our social standing, our religion, our culture, you know, all these things contribute, you know, values, beliefs, they all contribute to this identity that we’ve created about ourselves. And one of the things that I’ve done is I’ve actually drawn all these things on a whiteboard in front of someone said, Great, these are the things that constitute you and much more. Now, tell me what is it that is caused you destabilization right now? And they go up and they circle? occupation? said, Great. What about all these other things? Have they changed? in who you are? Oh, no, Well, great. So it’s not actually a threat to your entire identity. It’s actually just a threat to one aspect, right? And you’ve got all these other wonderful things around you who make you who you are. So you’re not threatened by this, your identity is not threatened. Right? So it’s almost that self awareness piece that needs to come up about isolating what is actually at threat, what is actually the stabilizing you and making the stabilizer feeling that way. And for us a typical cognitive behavioral approach, right? If you were sitting on the, on the lounge, having therapy, we’d be going through cognitive behavior therapy, right? So those feelings are created by the story that we tell ourselves the narrative, right? So what is the story that I’m telling myself? Is it that I’m too old to find another job? Is the narrative that I don’t feel I have the relevant skills now, to go back into the workforce. Right? And going back to your earlier point, Lisa, is it that I haven’t developed relationships and networks that are going to be able to support me? So let’s look at each of these things factually. Right. And then let’s look at what can you do today, that’s going to help you. And as soon as we start to do that, one of the things that I sort of realize is that there are opportunities where people start to see they are in control of things more than they realize. And you know, in sports psychology, we call this controlling the controllables. Right? The idea that there are a heck of a lot of things out of our control. And we have to accept that right? I mean, let’s take Corona. And we were able to spend our whole session talking about Corona, but hasn’t that been, you know, an amazing example, right of things that are out of our control, and then what we choose to do with that. In fact, just yesterday, I was having this conversation with someone, and they were talking about how Corona has affected my ability to find a new job. That’s what why is that well, because I’m so lonely, right? And said, Oh, well, that’s interesting. So isolation equals loneliness in their mind, right, which we know is not true. I mean, I can probably say, Lisa, you probably been really busy right over throughout this entire time practice of what you’ve been doing, set the business up and the opportunities up to be able to deliver what you do virtually. So there’s an opportunity in terms of that, and I think, taking control and well, having awareness is the first thing, right, and sort of realizing that your entire identity is not a threat as a result of this situation. Then the second thing is about realizing what is in my control, and then creating a plan to achieving that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  14:32  

Gosh, I love that way of thinking about it. And I have I have some questions, because I’m sure you do. I think it feels really clean and tidy and easy. And when you’re in it, it does not feel clean or tidy or easy or straightforward or like you can see the full path ahead of you. And so I’m curious You know, if someone had lost their job and lost an opportunity and was feeling empowered to try to move forward but felt like they were sitting with this question of if not this, then what? Um, you know, I’ve had my entire career in swimwear, manufacturing, and there are no others when we are manufacturers in this area, and I don’t even know if I even like swimwear, manufacturing or would want to go back into manufacturing or stuff with textile. How do you support someone who’s, who’s not necessarily feeling disempowered? In terms of their agency, but as feeling lost in terms of their direction?

Gaj Ravichandra  15:44  

Yeah, I’m so this is where I put on my Indiana Jones hat. Ryan, when we get lost, we need a map. Right. And I think that’s where, you know, finding people around you that can support you, that can help navigate, you know, that map for you, is really helpful. Because sometimes we think we can do this on our own, right, it’s a bit like having an ailment and you think I, you know, I’ve just got this scratch this itch on my shoulder, I don’t quite know what to do with it. But you know, what, I’m just gonna leave it for a little while and see what happens. Or you can go and see your GP, right and and see what happens as a result, right. In the same way, I think we, we have to now develop this mindset around the fact that there are all sorts of different parts of our life where we can create, you know, what we call a tribe around us, you know, a friend of mine, who is a sort of Special Forces commander in the, in the army, and he talks about this having this tribe around you, right, group of people are there to support you, to help you. So the idea that we had to pull ourselves out by ourselves, right, isn’t necessarily true. And I think that that’s a reminder sometimes that, you know, we’re not in this by ourselves, we asked her out about people having the right people that are around us can be helpful. But the second thing is also realizing what am I telling myself? So I would ask people to keep a journal. Now, when you start to feel anxious and fearful and nervous, just start writing down, what are you telling yourself at that time? And then to start to see, well, these are helpful, though, is it healthy or unhealthy for me, put into a box, right? Now, if that statement is healthy, great, keep with that line of thinking, right? If it’s unhealthy, how could I turn that into a healthy statement? Right? What do I need to be doing in my mind, to be able to reminding me now I completely understand and empathize with where you’re coming from on that comment, right? Because when you’re in it, it seems dark. When you’re in it, it seems like you’re in this pit. And regardless of how much you are trying that it really is challenging to get out. But to do that, you also need a map of how to get out of that darkness. Right. And so it is just about focusing on one light, right, a little piece of light that you can see off in the distance. And that means we need to set some goals, and not big goals, right? Because big goals at that point really can be quite meaningless to us, right? Because they, they seem daunting, but setting these micro goals that we have each day, you know, so you, you know, you sort of set some goals that are going to get you somewhere to, to make you feel positive, a little bit more empowered, right. So if it’s about calling one person that day, right, that you might have had a conversation with three years ago, just to send them an article or something that you’ve noticed that they’re in this new company, in this role, and you’ve come across an article that’s really interesting. Be generous, I find giving to people, you know, is one of the best ways of starting to feel better about yourself. It’s really quite powerful. And they are used as boxing analogy, right? You know, in boxing, we have this thing called jab, jab, hook, right? And in the same way, we call it give give before you take, right? So if you give a few times, it actually, firstly, it makes you feel good, right? In most situations. And then when you do an ask when you go and ask that person for something, but if you would ask them for 20 minutes of their time to talk about their industry, or how they transition from x company to y company, or to explain the culture of their company that they’re working in. Doesn’t feel so bad, right? Because you have given some things and you’ve done that, you know, with a sense of generosity, right to them. It shouldn’t be done feeling fake, right, it should be done because you do want to give something so I do find those micro goals and having a map is is important. And identifying those sports, are they fact based? Are they healthy or unhealthy and then deciding what you want to do with them.

Lisa Lewis Miller  19:57  

Gotcha. There were so many juicy nuggets in everything that you Just share their eye. I’ll respond to a couple and then send another question your way. I love the the jab jab hook. analogy, I think probably very few listeners to this are patrons of the boxing world. But I remember coming across that concept back when Gary Vaynerchuk wrote his book about it years and years ago, and something a different phrasing of the same principle that was really helpful and a little bit more resonant for me was, whenever you are feeling poor in something, give that thing. So, you know, if there were ever times that I was having a panic about feeling like I was running out of money, if I challenged myself to, to donate $5, somewhere, I could find a way to find the $5. And to give. And I think that it sounds like This is that same principle in terms of relationships, to find ways to give to others when you’re feeling relationship poor, if you will, to remind yourself of how much wealth you already have. And then to also feel a little bit more comfortable with having warm to those relationships back up. And having positive regard in those relationships, to be able to feel like you can make an ask and get some help or get some perspective. And something that I was hearing in the way that you were talking about these micro goals and giving yourself a map is that overarching over all of that is finding ways to get into a solution oriented mindset and avoid some of the thinking traps around. I don’t know anybody, I don’t know where to go next, I have to do this by myself, you know, each of the solutions that you’re proposing, was somewhat in response to a disempowered thinking trap that someone could find themselves in. And what I’ve seen is that sometimes those thinking traps are thought habits. So when you were talking about that principle of when you find yourself feeling disempowered, write down the thought that you’re thinking and then decide is this helpful or unhelpful, healthy or unhealthy? So often, those thoughts are running on repeat, we’re not having a whole bunch of new fresh thoughts about how terrible we are, how miserable things are, it’s like the same broken record playing over and over again, in this sort of habitual way. I’m wondering if you saw a lot of habit Based Thinking traps, that were catching people in the work that you’ve done?

Gaj Ravichandra  22:52  

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, we are creatures of habit, right. But that phrase exists for a reason. And one of the things that I’ve always been fascinated by with this is how our behaviors are anchored in who we are. And a lot of that is driven by our context, our environment, the way in which we live, our the way our homes are set up, the way our offices are set up, they all create these anchors. And so the way one of the reasons we keep thinking the same way is because we are doing the same things. And we are surrounded by the same things all the time. And so the number one way of breaking those anchors is by changing our context or the environment. And this is why we find when people go and take a holiday, right, they come back and they magically have started to think about things differently. It’s not it’s not magic, it’s not an accident, right? There is a reason why that happens, because we have changed our anchors we have, if you like if we use the boat analogy, right, you’ve removed the anchor, you’ve gotten mutiny, you know, sail your boat around the corner on the other side of the peninsula and put the anchor down, you have a new view, you have a new perspective. And all of a sudden, things start to look and feel differently. So if you’re thinking differently, you’re feeling differently. And if you’re feeling differently, you’re probably going to behave differently. And so that’s where this sense of re anchoring yourself by changing the context you’re in or the environment can be massively different. So it’s one of the things that I talk to my coaches a lot on is, how are you changing the physical environment, as well as your mental environment, right, you’ve got to do both. And you can try all the tricks of the trade, right by trying to change your mental environment, but he you start getting up and you’re doing exactly the same things in the same order in the same environment. You’re not going down to your local cafe. Now that you know, we can get out to our cafes and kind of sit there again, have a coffee makes a massive difference, right? It just gives a different opportunity to react. And so I find that to be really helpful.

Lisa Lewis Miller  25:00  

That concept of just shaking things up, whether that’s picking a different way to take a walk around your neighborhood or going to a different shop for a coffee feels like a really helpful tool for anybody to have in their toolbox to shake, shake up their way of thinking and their way of feeling when they’re feeling limited or stuck. And something interesting spark for me when you were talking about this idea of context and being shaped by our environment in really profound ways, because one of the things that I’ve noticed in the United States is that different cities across the country have very different social norms around work. And the context that you’re in with respect to those social norms, can have a profound impact on what you believe is available and what you believe is possible for you. So I’ll give you the example of the United States I live in Colorado. And the the prevailing context with respect to work here is, work hard, play hard, but actually don’t work that hard. And, you know, you, you shouldn’t expect to have to work after five o’clock, in almost any industry or any professional environment, that that the mountains are calling. And so therefore, you must go and be outdoors or be with your your family and in other contexts. And that kind of an attitude. And a context with respect to work is so different than the way that the psychology of someone living in say, New York, is shaped. Because the context in New York is this city does not sleep, and therefore, people will work, work work. And once you’re done working, you might got the happy hour with your colleagues to talk more about work and you know, do some Insider, the conversations that you couldn’t have at the office, and then you go home, but you’re still kind of connected to work on your phone, or you maybe you flip your laptop open just for 20 minutes to check email before you go to bed. Then, you know, depending on what organization you’re with, in New York, sometimes your backup and add it back in the office right at 8am. And for some people, they kind of roll in, maybe things get kicked in at the office closer to 10 o’clock in the morning. But that the cultural context with respect to expectations around work, and what it means to be working full time, and what work life boundaries look like, can be wildly different. So let me take us in a little bit of a different direction hinges on this context question. What if someone wants something that’s really different from what their context typically allows for? So for example, I was speaking with a wonderful, delightful human being living in New York, who wants work life balance. And the prevailing culture in New York doesn’t really support work life balance, certainly not the way that it does in Colorado. So short are telling this person to move. Colorado was lovely in the summer. What can individuals do when they find themselves in a space where the cultural context feels oppressive or in conflict with their personal values?

Gaj Ravichandra  28:42  

And that’s a real challenge, right? And particularly when people have set up an entire network, now their friends, and perhaps even their family are in those locations as well becomes even more complicated. The reality is that we should try things. And I think there’s nothing wrong in trying and seeing whether something actually works. And then a whole concept of the grass is greener, sometimes it is, right. Sometimes it’s worth giving it a go. And the worst that can happen is you come back, right? But at least that you get to give something a chance and to change what it is about that context. The other thing is about being I think having a bit of a reality check on this idea of balance in our lives and balance is such a subjective word. I talked to a lot of high performers in my life and I don’t think any of them have balanced in a traditional sense, right? They to achieve what they’ve had to achieve. They’ve had to sacrifice and give up things to achieve a certain kind of outcome. Not everyone wants to do that right and completely understand the toll that it takes on you mentally physically, emotionally, you know, it’s quite significant. And understanding Firstly, what does balance mean for me Why is balanced? In the way that I want it so important to me, and thinking through that the Holy Trinity, right of the job search, the geography, the industry and the function that you think is going to be relevant to you. So if you open up your mind to those three aspects, well, you know what, maybe being in New York, I can find balance, but I can’t do it working in investment banking, right? It’s gonna not work, I can’t do it in a law firm, I can’t do it in a accountancy practice, right? However, there could be some businesses that, that allow me to do that maybe, you know, we had actually an individual from Lloyds Bank them out in the Middle East, who left and was so disappointed in her inability to spend time with her family, and to be able to do that. He set up a yoga practice. Right? She controlled the hours in which she worked. And she predominantly now delivers yoga to banks. That’s what she does. Right? So she uses the knowledge of the banking industry, tied into her passion of yoga, and, and sort of Eastern sort of exercises, and bought that into a world that she was very comfortable with, on the timings that she was comfortable with. So sometimes it’s about connecting these things together. I think it’s a bit. You know, there’s this concept in mathematics, chaos theory, right? The idea that, you know, there is a random string of events and things that happen to us in our lives, with chaos theory would say that there’s always a formula, there’s an algorithm that connects those dots together. And for me, and I’d love to get your thoughts, obviously. So I find that there really is a connection between the choices that we make, sometimes it is subconscious or unconscious, you know, why do I choose this job over another job? Why have I chosen to stay in New York in this hectic lifestyle? It’s typically not an accident, there are some things that they’re that are feeding that right. So these these connecting the dots, once we start to do that, we start to understand perhaps even why that is important to us. I mean, do you find that a lot that there is this hidden connection that sits there.

Lisa Lewis Miller  32:16  

But I find that a lot of times when people are wanting a fresh start, what they’re forgetting is that they ended up where they were, for some reason. And it’s usually not that far divorced from who they are, what they value what they need. And so sometimes looking backwards in that retrospect and connecting the dots can reveal both the values that a person holds that they were perhaps discounting or under appreciating. And sometimes it’ll also reveal some of those external machinations, whether that is the cultural context, whether that was your parents expectations of you, whether that was that in fourth grade, you told people you wanted to be a corporate attorney, and you’ve just never given yourself permission to step away from that vision or that persona. So I think that there’s there’s absolutely some validity in working through an exercise like that, to see how even if you’re feeling lost or adrift, that you may not be as lost as you think you are. And that you have so much more internal clarity and knowledge and resourcefulness than you usually likely are giving yourself credit for.

Gaj Ravichandra  33:37  

Absolutely. And the idea that you can take risk, and risk doesn’t need to mean that you d stabilize everything, right? I think the idea that you can try different things, even talking to different people, you know, can be a wonderful way of just starting to open up your mind, to be able to consider new possibilities. And so, for me, I’m an introvert. And you know, my natural style is, you know, when I when I, my job is to talk to people all day, right? And I’m drained at the end of the day, my wife reminds me how terrible that is, because I can’t talk to her at the end of the day. But what happens is that I realized that, that also affects my ability to network, right? So I have to work pretty hard to actually go out proactively and to network with people for our business and to do what we need to do. And that means that I have to give myself energy to do that, because energy is being sucked out of me right through that process. So that means I need to re energize, recharge my batteries to do that. And if I do that, at the end of the day, and I sit this networking task, right, at the end of the day, it’s not going to happen. I just know that’s not gonna happen. So I said it for the beginning of the day, right? Because I know I’m a little bit a little bit more energized. That’ll be more focus, and I’ve got a higher percentage chance of getting it done. And so having that self awareness about yourself and understanding those patterns of your own behavior, and how your mind works, can be a wonderful way of selecting some of these activities that can be helpful for you. So I do find that interesting.

Lisa Lewis Miller  35:16  

And I think on a larger level, that being more and more aware of what energizes you and what drains you is a critically important tool, and practice to have in order to continue to make career decisions that will serve you and to be intentional. So I think that you, you’re hitting on this as a concept as part of a bigger conversation, but this question of what does energize me, how do I prioritize that in my life? How can I mitigate against some of the things that are draining? I mean, shoot, that’s a whole podcast in and of itself. So let me ask you this, and maybe this will bring us in for a close? How did you learn to monitor your own energy and the ebbs and flows in your day?

Gaj Ravichandra  36:03  

Probably by accident and frustration, I think more than anything, right, I didn’t have a coach at the time that was there working with me to kind of point that out. And so one of the things that I realized is that I was looking around at other people and saying to myself, you know, why am I finding myself comparing myself to other people? Why am I frustrated with perhaps where I am and what I’m doing? And I found that the comparison game is, is it’s a it’s a win lose game, right? It’s a terrible game to play. And so I had to then say, Well, okay, let’s then have this conversation internally. What am I doing? Maybe he’s actually helping me and make me feel good about about myself. And that was a difficult question. Because I, I’m one of those people who always has something to do, I am, I’m constantly on the move, to to sit down and actually write that down, Lisa was was a bit like torture for me. And so what it did do, however, was that it forced me to actually think about why I’m doing the things that I’m doing, and what was causing me to be happy and unhappy. And so that was the first step, but also having some people around me that I could talk to, so I started getting some mentors, you know, who I still speak to, I have three mentors that I speak to monthly, right, and I’ve made that practice, you know, for many, many years now. And that has helped ground me in so many things. And so, you know, one of the things I always strongly recommend to people is to have a couple of people that are perhaps 1015 years ahead of you, right, in terms of, you know, the kind of different elements of their life doesn’t need to be about, you know, corporate success, or whatever it might be, it could be just where they are in terms of their age, in terms of their life experience, in terms of their family, in terms of sport, whatever it might be, and make time to talk to them half an hour a month, 45 minutes a month, whatever it might be. And have an AI is a concept in psychology called free association, right? So don’t go there with a topic. Just start talking, right, and see what happens. And things will come up in that conversation and make note of those things. And if you want to dig into them digging a little bit deeper, and ask some questions around that. But it can be a wonderful exercise, you know, to have those people around you. And we do a lot of work around mental toughness around careers and how people use that resilience and grit, you know, to move on. And it’s becoming clearer and clearer in my mind that we are not in this by ourselves. And so the idea that, you know, I have to magically find a new job, or I’m a stay at home mom, and I don’t know where that I’m going to start to look for those next opportunities, doesn’t rely on you magically creating that for yourself. Right. It’s about talking to some other people and having those initial conversations. Start with those micro goals. And I feel that they are the helpful conversations to have. But again, that is a podcast in and of itself.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:15  

I love that. Well, good for somebody who has been listening to this and thinking that you’ve been sharing such wonderful brilliance. Where can folks go to learn more about you and your work and your coaching program?

Gaj Ravichandra  39:30  

Yeah, so we have our website compass with a Kay compass. consultancy.com. I’m also on LinkedIn, and I’ve been told I need to be more on Instagram. So I need to my teenage daughters and others around me, saying that’s got to happen. So I think that those are probably the best locations, you know, to be able to find out what we do. But I think you know, if you’re just you know, wanting to have a listen, I think reach out to us, I mean what you do through these points Cass is just fantastic, Lisa. And I think, obviously, I’m sure people are reaching out to you and sort of asking questions and getting those answers. That’s a wonderful indication of that engagement and resonance. You know, which is so important. We need to tribe, we need people around us that can support us right and not supporting them. So yeah, absolutely happy to help.

Lisa Lewis Miller  40:23  

Well, I appreciate the compliment in there. And I’m so grateful that you come on to share your expertise and your wisdom with our listeners today. So thank you for being here. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally finds the work that fits your values and lifestyle. For the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.