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124: Addressing Workplace Induced Trauma with Katie O’Malley

On today’s episode of The Career Clarity Show, we are covering something new. And while I hesitate to call it perhaps exciting, I think it’s really important terrain for us to be talking about. We’re talking about workplace induced trauma.

I think every single one of us has either personally experienced or knows someone who has experienced a less than ideal workplace situation. Maybe there was harassment or a toxic workplace. And so often, these are the kinds of things that make us want to leave and make us consider career change.

Katie O’Malley and I are going to talk about the impact and the implication of being in a tricky workplace situation, both on an emotional level and a career level.

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Show Notes:

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04   

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host. And each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show, I am your host, Lisa Miller. And I am delighted that you are with us today, as always. And on today’s episode of the podcast, we are covering some new. And while I hesitate to call it perhaps exciting, I think it’s really important terrain for us to be talking about. And today’s episode of the podcast is about what happens at the workplace when things don’t feel so hunky dory. I think every single one of us has either personally experienced or knows someone who has experienced a less than ideal workplace situation. Maybe there was harassment, maybe there was a toxic workplace. Maybe there were weird power dynamics. And so often, these are the kinds of things that make us want to leave and make us consider career change, make us want to flip the table on life. And when you experience events like that in your life, sometimes the ramifications and the impact of that are more than just you having a bad day. And so we’re going to talk about that on that episode of the Career Clarity Show Today we’re going to talk about the impact and the implication of being in a tricky workplace situation. We’re going to talk about that and an emotional level. We’re going to talk about that at a career level. And I’m so excited for today’s guest who is a an expert, I’m brilliant in this space to jam with me and peel apart all the layers of nuance and complexity and funkiness and frustration that can come with having a workplace experience that isn’t as empowering, respectful, or perhaps appropriate as what you expect and what you deserve. Today’s guest on the podcast is Katie O’Malley. Katie is a leadership coach and educator with 15 years of professional experience serving the nonprofit corporate and higher education sectors. across these workplaces, Katie noticed her strength and values consistently steered her towards the support and development of others. In 2013, Katie translated this into action and pursued a master’s degree in counseling, and a board certification in executive and career coaching. Currently, Katie works full time as the Senior Associate Director of leadership development at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. in her spare time, Katie serves as a coach and mentor for startup businesses through the Polsky Center for Entrepreneurship, and founded encouraged coaching Chicago, a private coaching practice specializing in career and leadership development for underrepresented populations in the C suite. Katie, welcome to the Career Clarity Show. 

Katie O’Malley

Lisa, thanks so much for having me on today. And for that lovely set up for us to have a conversation around tricky, sticky workplaces. And also thank you for for that lovely introduction of of me as well. I appreciate it so much. 

Lisa Lewis Miller

Certainly. And you know, in the introduction to today’s episode, I felt a little hesitant to come out of the gates with the term that we’re going to use in today’s conversation to label this. But I want to start out the conversation you and I are having by introducing the term of workplace induced trauma. And before we dive into that, and unpack that and what that means, I’d love to have you share a little bit about what got you interested in or curious about workplace induced trauma?

Katie O’Malley  4:16  

Yeah, so that that is the that is a really wonderful question. And I think the answer to that is twofold. One, one is personal experience with workplace induced trauma in environments that I’ve previously been in. And the other is actually my my background in counseling, and my training in in trauma and Crisis Counseling and seeing how these two things really intersect. It’s the application of, of a trauma lens or what we often hear in in the therapeutic and counseling world is being trauma informed and applying that to our careers because the truth is, every action experience we have in the workplace, we will carry with us into our next workplace. And every experience we have in the workplace also impacts us just as as human beings. And we will carry that with us, just as we move through the world and our day to day, whether we realize it or not. And so one of the things that I’m so excited to talk to you about today is recognizing, what are the signs that that you might notice if you’re experiencing workplace induced trauma on an individual level? And also, what are the things that you can be looking out for on a more global or organizational level, that that might be causing you to feel these ways and have those negative experiences? 

Lisa Lewis Miller  5:48  

I’d love to talk a little bit more about that intersection point between your background in therapy and counseling, and the workplace. Because, you know, so often when we think about therapy, and when we think about trauma, we think about those as being big and scary things that happen outside of work. That’s, that’s your personal life, right? That’s digging into your past and you growing up and your family of origin. So how did you start to see the intersection points between these two worlds showing up in your work or in your studies? 

Katie O’Malley  6:25  

Yeah, I think for me, with the with the counseling orientation that I have, the the thing I started to recognize is, there really isn’t a division or a bright line between Katie at work, and Katie at home, I am a single individual that moves through the world, in this body with this brain with this heart, whether I’m in the workplace, or whether I’m in my personal life. And I’m the the important note on that in counseling and in therapy. So much of that work is in developing self awareness, self understanding, laying the groundwork for self development. And so taking those pieces to really understand what it is, like Career Clarity, Show what it is that we need at work, and what are the things that have actually actively harmed us at work that may impact how we’re showing up with our colleagues, our clients, our teams, or perhaps even in the future behaviors that may prevent us from getting the next opportunity that we want that are informed by our previous experiences, and really starting to develop some behavioral agility around that. But in order to do all of that, there has to be an awareness of the experiences that you’ve had and how potentially you’ve been devalued. Had your your dignity chipped away at or or been not respected, that makes you start to believe, perhaps that it was your fault that you were treated this way and you didn’t work hard enough, or your leadership skills weren’t enough. In the words of Rene Brown, just you’re enough as you are right now. And this conversation is really for me, how do we give power back to the employee to be able to say, I don’t deserve this? And here are the ways that I need to be shown human human dignity. Is that responsive? I don’t know, I might have gone off on a tangent there. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  8:28  

Well, you gave me a lot of different threads to pull on for sure. I know, you will, you started to go into this space of not being treated like you deserve at work. And I think that that is a whole rich area for exploration for us together. Because, you know, when we think about some of the things that we are taught and socialized about work, so many are so often the previous generations will create these, these norming statements like they call it work and not fun for a reason. And you know, if it was all enjoyable, and all playtime all the time, they wouldn’t have to pay you, you know, they’re paying you because it’s hard and you got to suffer and you got to put your head down. And when so much of that narrative is what we walk into the workplace experience carrying with us in terms of our our stories about what we deserve, what work is how we should expect to be treated, what we should be willing to give to our employers. I think it really clouds a conversation about what we deserve and what work can be and what work should be. So help me kind of dig into this a little bit around the differences between what might be appropriate or might be okay for hard work versus things that are inappropriate. 

Katie O’Malley  9:58  

Absolutely. So First, I’m so glad you talked about the socialization piece. And the story most often told about what work is right? You work hard they pay you, you do what you’re asked you do what you’re told for. And for a lot of folks carrying that narrative with them, has them throw up their hands and just be like it is what it is it’s work. What’s important to note that though, is it isn’t just work, it’s 810 12, in some places, 16 hours of your day. And during that time, there’s no reason for you to be treated as anything other than what’s the word I’m looking for anything other than than the awesome personal value that that you are and what you’re bringing to the table, even in those moments where you might make a misstep or a mistake. It’s it shouldn’t get to the point where you’re being harassed for it or retaliated against for it. And so, um, I have lost my train and thread again, Lisa, I am so sorry. There’s just so much here. You asked, what should we be on the lookout for like what’s okay? And what’s not okay? 

Lisa Lewis Miller  11:12  

Mm hmm, exactly. 

Katie O’Malley  11:14  

Okay, so one of the things I like to talk to clients about is, when you are in an interview process and accepting a new job, negotiating that that final compensation package, remembering, it’s it’s a contract, right. And in that contract, you have your outlined work responsibilities, who you report to who reports to you, and you’re in contract with the employer. contracts have limits and boundaries, and part of those limits and boundaries you need to establish for yourself. But part of them get infringed upon, before you’re even able to establish them for yourself, whether it’s working, working overtime you weren’t expecting to do and even worse, not getting paid for it. But also having experiences day to day that actively detract from your lived experience. And those those types of things can vary from from person to person, and what impacts them the most. So what would be a negative experience for me, or something that feels very acute and wrong might be different than then bring Lisa right, you’re awesome host. But there are some some more global things that regardless of your own personality, and and the influences and minds that you bring into a space globally, are just bad practices. And these things are experiencing hostility in the workplace experiencing harassment in the workplace discrimination, retaliation, all of these things on a global level, I often think actually get overlooked, and then shrugged off by a lot of employees, because they don’t think it’s bad enough, or it doesn’t constitute actual discrimination. But the truth is, if you’re in an identity group, and you feel that that discrimination or hostility or retaliation is is coming from who you are, oh, my goodness, there is there is so much available for you to be able to do to ensure not only that that treatment of you stops, but that it prevents it from happening to other people in the future, the challenges, owning that that’s what’s happening, which can be very vulnerable to do. And then having the courage to step forward and say something about it, especially if you’re in a position where you’re fearful of losing your job. So there, there are a lot of different factors at play, but I think they’re the internal factors, things that rub us the wrong way, as a result of our thoughts, feelings and behaviors, but then globally, there there are more legal and ethical things that often people just overlook or shrug off. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  14:18  

Well, let me ask you this. It sounds like you know, according to the EEOC, you know, there are some specific behaviors that no matter how you personally emotionally experienced them constitute harassment or retaliation or other things that are just off limits not allowed. What about the murky middle of something that doesn’t quite get on to the verboten list, but it doesn’t feel good. How do you make the determination for yourself whether you just had a weird interaction with somebody or they had an off day or if you’ve experienced something That could be called a trauma. 

Katie O’Malley  15:02  

Yeah. So this is this is great, because whenever we experience discomfort or dis ease, chances are something is wrong. And even if oftentimes, if you can’t put language to it like you’re describing, we, we will ignore it and say, Oh, the data is not actually there, because my feeling doesn’t count, my goodness, the feeling, everything is a feeling before it’s a thought. And so getting an understanding of that feeling of disease or discomfort that serves as a signal or an alarm bell, that this is something that’s worth digging into, if not to move forward at a more organizational level with it, at least to gain clarity and understanding for yourself. I have lots of personal examples I can share that I think fall into this murky territory. But I then had validated after after leaving the organization I was at so when I was working in higher education at the University of Texas at Austin, I had several experiences of what I perceived to be gender discrimination. So being treated differently, based on the fact that I identified and move through the world as a woman being harassed by leadership for speaking my mind and speaking out about things that were not agreeable to me. And I think that agreeable to me is I’m a white, middle class, able bodied, cisgender. Woman, my goodness, what what’s happening to everybody else with identities that aren’t as privileged as as mine. And so, two experiences that I had that that I’ll share with your listeners, the first I was in, I was in a meeting with an assistant vice president, um, and he, we were sitting, I was in a chair, he was on the couch, we’re sitting kind of catty corner to each other. And he’s like, Hey, can I give you some feedback, and he had just kind of walked into my office and sat down. So I got up from around my desk, came around and sat down in that chair. So we were then catty corner to each other. And I was like, anytime someone comes in to provide feedback in an unsolicited way, it’s not going to be something I want to hear. It’s usually not something anybody wants to hear, because it’s unexpected and unsolicited. And so he’s like, you know, I think, I think you just move a little too fast for this environment. And I was like, Okay, please tell me more. I know, I know, I come from like, a bigger a bigger city and a more urban area. Does it have to do with like, my, my pace? And he’s like, No, no, I think maybe you just need to slow down. And I’m like, okay, trying to understand what this, like you said murky, murky language means. So I kept probing and asking more questions. And I said, Oh, my gosh, I hear you saying slow down. That, to me indicates I might be making silly errors or egregious mistakes that are making our team or department or division look bad is, is that going on? Please tell me I want to correct it. No, no, it’s not that. Let me give you an analogy from the movie cars. He’s like, have you seen that cartoon? And I’m like, No, No, I haven’t. But please go ahead. Give me your analogy to what she said, sometimes we think we’re built to go really fast and do really well. And sometimes that perception is wrong. And I’m like, I still don’t understand what you’re trying to share with me. And he’s like, um, what, what I’m trying to share is, you know, I think you view yourself as being two to three steps, or two to three positions ahead of where you are, and you need to roll that back. And he patted me on the knee as he did it. And in my mind, I’m like, I understand I am new to the field of higher education. Me being went to graduate school now I’m out, but I have 10 years experience prior to this, in both events and programs. And so I just kind of held on to it, because in the moment, I didn’t know how to respond. And then I talked with my therapist about it. Luckily, I had a session that night, and I’m like, Oh my gosh, here’s what happened. I don’t feel good about it. Um, and she’s like, well, what are you going to do? And so the next day I went in, and I was like, Hey, I just wanted to circle back on the conversation we had yesterday, I had some time to think about it. And it would be both a disservice to me and to our students. If I didn’t share with you that I feel like if I were amazing You wouldn’t have had that conversation with me that you would have said yes, keep going keep aspiring to do more and be better for our team and our students. At which point he got very, very defensive and almost lost his words, because I think the alarm bells that went off for him, we’re Oh, my goodness, she thinks I’m discriminating against her or harassing her based on her gender. Um, if this were the only thing I had experienced there, I might have slapped it off, kept it in my memory, but not done much with it, it. But it was the stacking of experiences like that over the course of 20 months.

And so eventually, after, after I left, the University of Texas at Austin and I was away from from that environment, because it can be so tough to do anything, Lisa, while you’re in the environment, where you’re experiencing the harassment or discrimination that actually embeds the trauma response in your mind, body and heart. That when I left and got to the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, one of the things that happened at that time was the me to movement was really starting to gain traction. And from there, the it’s the me two foundations legal support for for folks, specifically women who have experienced harassment, discrimination in the workplace, and so reached out and said, here’s, here’s what I’ve experienced, I’ve kept, this is the other important thing, keep a list of all of these things that that you think are bad behaviors or bad practices on behalf of your colleagues or your team or the organization. I’m like, here’s, here’s the laundry list of things that happened to me over the course of 20 months. Do Do I have a case here, and so submitted that to, to the foundation, within 24 hours, they emailed me back with three different attorneys that were willing to speak with me, um, all of them set up appointments with me, I shared the the document I was telling you about, and the viewers about with them, and also, they had me walk through the entirety of my story. And at the end, every single one of them said, you absolutely have a discrimination or harassment and or retaliation claim here. The issue is, you’re out of time. Um, you only had 180 days to file from the last moment of that discrimination or harassment or retaliation you’d experienced, which is six months. And I was it took me six months of being away from there actually a full year, before I could even bring myself to really share this out and try and take steps to do something about it. And so the foundation is actually called the time’s up foundation. And I just, my heart was broken to here, there’s nothing, there’s nothing I could do. At this point, I can’t file a claim the EEOC won’t take it. However, to be validated in what I thought and felt was just wrong and toxic behavior to know that it actually was and there was a legal legitimate claim behind it made me feel better, but also made me want to tell my story and to educate more folks on the resources that are out there. And the timelines that you face. I know this was very long winded. So thank you. Thank you for just sticking with me and nodding as I, as I told this whole story. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  23:49  

Well, Katie, I feel like there are so many important points in your story that deserve to be highlighted. I think first and foremost, that if you experienced any interactions at work that feel funky or off it one interaction is enough. And keeping a log of the interaction who was with you know, any of the details of it, just for your own sanity can be so helpful, because I mean, one of the trickiest things around workplace induced trauma is that it’s typically microaggressions. It’s not usually one giant thing that is super egregious. It’s usually the the straw that broke the camel’s back. Mm hmm. And so you’ll just have interactions day after day, week after week, month after month. Like in Amanda Hart’s book, The memo, she talks about some of those micro aggressions and how no one one off comment still would have felt weird and uncomfortable, but when she zoomed out, and look at all of these one off things that happened, they weren’t one off. And so I feel like that’s such an important point that you’re making that if you’re listening to this, and you have had any weird interactions with folks at work, it’s worth writing down and keeping track of just for your own sanity, edification and gratification, just for your own sanity there. But the other thing that you brought up in your story that I feel like is really important to highlight is that you believed that you deserved to be treated differently and to be treated better. And that innate belief, I think, makes a huge difference in what you choose to do after you have those interactions. Because if you don’t have that belief that you don’t deserve to be treated like that, you’re never going to go back into that VPS office and say, Hey, here’s how I experienced that. You’re never going to reach out to the time’s up Foundation, to say, hey, let me share with you what’s going on. And so I almost wonder if one of the biggest one of the biggest takeaways from our conversation so far for anybody who thinks they might have experienced workplace induced trauma is that you deserve to feel good and feel respected at work. And if your spidey senses tingling, that something is off, trust that don’t Gaslight yourself, don’t give your don’t put yourself into denial or bargaining or whatever you have to do to try to talk yourself out of it being your truth in your experience, you know, whether or not someone intended to discriminate against you or harass you, your experience of it is actually the only part that matters. 

Katie O’Malley  26:56  

Agreed 100% um, and the, the piece about that, and this is this is what gets more into into the counseling and therapeutic territory is recognizing that you are valuable that you matter that what that your voice and what you choose to do can not only make a difference for you, but for other people. And it can be so hard to get to that place especially I think I see it even more with the women that I work with questioning their own their own intuition or their own experience and to what you said gaslighting their themselves, chances are because they’ve been gaslit for their entire careers. And it is so hard to to unlearn that and and really take it off your heart and mind as as the lens that you’re looking at your experience through. Oh, my goodness, yes.

Lisa Lewis Miller  27:56  

Well, and you know what, what’s interesting about that, too, Katie is that when when we Gaslight, our selves, and we say Oh, it’s not that big of a deal, I’m sure that person didn’t really mean it that way, you know, I, we can then arrive at a place of not wanting there to be any consequences for that behavior on the other person out of a fear, or a doubt that we, our experience isn’t the truth of the experience. And I see this, especially with people who identify as women just like you were talking about, that the process to make someone accountable or responsible for things they have said or done that have harmed us or others, is a process that people are very hesitant to go about, for a variety of reasons. One certainly being the potential of retaliation or longer term effects for you. One typically being that you are typically lower on the totem pole, or lower sorry, lower within the organization chart, then the person who has committed the behavior against you. And one of them that your report could have real consequences for someone meaning they could be put on a performance improvement plan. There could be disciplinary measures, they could be let go from the organization. And it’s hard to get to the place where we notice the microaggressions that have happened against us or the the outright aggressions, right, the outright harassment that has happened towards us. And it’s really difficult to get from that experience and the pain and the trauma that comes with it, to getting to a place where you feel like if the consequence is that that person is terminated that it’s okay. I’m so I’m curious, when you think about your own experience and the experiences that you’ve heard and seen with your clients and they’ve experienced trauma. And they’re trying to figure out what do I do about this? And what am I okay with being an outcome or a consequence of me taking action? What? What’s that process? Like? How do you navigate that together?

Katie O’Malley  30:15  

Yeah, so first, the first thing I really try and do both both for myself and for clients is, is to bring to bring us back to this point of equilibrium, right? When we experience trauma, or when we experience microaggressions, or anything along the lines of of discrimination, or harassment, it can, it can throw off our baseline and we’re operating from a fear based place, instead of from from standing on solid ground. And so the very first move is, is to help get yourself out of that past mindset of the experience that that happened to a place where you again, feel feel strong and stable, and mostly like yourself. So sometimes that that work takes takes a while, sometimes it’s it’s more immediate, that’s a very, very individualized experience for me. When the the main reason that I didn’t come forward while I was at UT Austin was because I was going through an immigration sponsorship process with my now husband. And going through that process, you had to have full time employment, certain threshold of earnings. And for me, I’m like, I can’t jeopardize losing my job. So the love of my life can’t become a permanent resident. That’s, that’s just not okay with me. And so that was a big part of the reason why I waited I was if it were just me, I would be less scared about losing my job or experiencing that retaliation, but it was going to impact potentially, this really important and joyful part of my life. And I was terrified of that kind of disruption, and what it would mean, for me, and, and my now husband partner, for other folks. Um, my guess is there are there are family concerns and childcare concerns, and debt concerns and all kinds of reasons that you might be afraid to come forward and to do something or say something or act. Additionally, the idea that you might throw off somebody else’s career trajectory by filing a complaint or making some noise, that that can be disruptive to folks too. And people have very different tolerances for that, depending on where they are at in their lives. How, what their interpersonal sensitivity is, and how important this particular aggression that they experienced, was to prevent happening to somebody else in the future. And so it’s, what I would say is to anyone listening, it’s a very individualized process, but having someone to talk through with it. And and the direction that you want to go in establishing a game plan is the best thing anybody can do. You don’t have to do this alone. I don’t recommend doing it alone, or trying to navigate it alone, because it can be exhausting and overwhelming. But having someone by your side, whether it’s it’s a coach, a therapist, potentially reaching out to friends who are in the legal profession, and attorneys to see what what you might be able to do. But you don’t need to go through this alone. And whatever you’re experiencing, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last to experience it. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  33:53  

Katie, I love that perspective, in particular, because you know, one of the things that when you look at that literature on negotiation, and you look at the tactics that work for people who identify as men versus people who identify as women, one of the biggest negotiation tactics that works better for women, for goodness knows what reason, is feeling like you’re negotiating on behalf of someone else. And that same principle comes true when it comes to standing up for yourself, that if you feel like you’re standing up for yourself in a vacuum, it can be real easy to get cold feet about it. And to back off and say, it’s not that important. It was just me this one time. But Katie, what you just said about if you’re experiencing this, the odds are really, really good, that you’re not the only person you’re not the first you’re not going to be the last can help to flip our brains into a different space to say, you know, this is probably worth reporting and having added to this person’s record, regardless of what the outcomes are. And one of the biggest things that I feel like is so important to highlight is that if consequences happen happened to the person. That’s not your fault. It is their behavior that created those consequences and created the reaction that the organization is going to have. You happen to be in the line of fire for that behavior, which is certainly unfortunate. But that person chose that behavior. That person used those words, that person touched your body, that person did whatever they did. And you had no control over that no influence over that, and no responsibility for their decisions about their behavior. 

Katie O’Malley  35:34  

It is not your fault. It’s just not exactly I couldn’t say what you said more perfectly. Lisa. And, and the only thing I might add is paying attention to when you do report what happens when other people report these behaviors, what happens? Does it get punished? Or even worse? Does it go I’m not unpunished, but it go without consequence? Is it overlooked brushed aside, what we’re then treading into is you having really strong data points about the organizational culture, what it values and clearly that it doesn’t value you. And that that also can be very hard to sit with. But again, doing it and it’s so individually dependent, but doing something when you realize it’s on behalf of other folks or a greater good, especially when you’re a woman makes it much easier as soon as I was able to reframe, you know what, if I experienced this, I wonder, I wonder if my colleagues, God forbid, my students are experiencing this from this person as well, I have to speak up. This is not an experience I’d want anyone to have. And as I was even trying to talk myself out of reaching out to the time’s up Foundation, if any of my friends, siblings, colleagues, fellow coaches came to me and said, here’s the laundry list of things I experienced over the course of 20 months, what would I What would I say to them? I would validate them, I would affirm them. And and I would say, I encourage you to do something, and I’ll be along for the ride. Why wouldn’t I do that for myself? 

Lisa Lewis Miller  37:23  

Well, Katie, one last question for you is, you know, as we are both sis hat white women here, so we have access to a lot a lot of privilege just based on the constructs of the society in which we were born into. And if we were to take complaint to HR, or to an anonymous tip line, or whatever structures your organization might have in place to receive this kind of information, we have a pretty good likelihood of it being taken seriously. But individuals who are members of underrepresented populations, right, if you or let’s let’s call it even more explicitly, historically, excluded, populations and communities may have a difficult time even being taken seriously. In let’s say that you are transgender, and you are asking someone to use a new name or a new pronoun to describe you. And they, they don’t, you know, it can be hard to report that to HR or your di team, if you’re an organization that’s large enough to have such a thing. And know that that’s going to be taken seriously and seen through the same lens that you see it and that you feel it. You have any advice for people of color, or folks with different sexual orientations, gender identities, were the things that they are feeling and experiencing might be more difficult to have the institutions of corporate america see and be as responsive to.

Katie O’Malley  39:06  

 Yeah, this is this is a fantastic question. And I so appreciate you naming the identities and the the privileges that we hold. And I think for for me and hearing that question what my mind immediately jumps to and this I am I am still learning and educating myself and trying to be the best ally in practice and in action that I can be, but still learning. So if I say anything that missteps or triggers some alarm bells for your listeners, please send me a note. I’m inviting me to rethink to rethink my thinking. But one of the things I would say is find the allies on your team and find the allies within your organization that you can talk to about this, who can also be advocates for you and Say yes, I am bear witness to this other employee not not using the correct name not using the correct correct pronouns, even after being repeatedly asked to be a champion and recognize the opportunities of me as Katie may have been given, I don’t see being given to the women of color on my team, what can we do to change that? And so, I hesitate to say, here’s, here’s what, folks like you said from from historically excluded. identities can do I think, some of that weight and some of carrying that actually belongs on folks who do have the privilege and not just observing what’s going on but but taking action to remedy what’s going on, on behalf of of that person. If they want action taken. That isn’t me saying you see something, immediately do something, it’s you see something, connect with that individual and see how you can be the best advocate or champion for how they want to move forward. Because again, it’s it’s it feels awful to do it alone. But it feels even worse, to do it alone when you feel like you’re the only one having this particular having this particular issue. So I’m really I’m really putting the responsibility on other folks here. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  41:29  

Well, Katie, I think it’s a it’s a great starting point, you know, I’m sure that there is more that individuals can do, and society can do and organizations can do. But we’ve got to figure out places to dive in and get started to. So thank you so much for all of the brilliance that you’ve shared in today’s conversation. And if someone has been listening to this, and they want to learn more about you and your coaching practice and your point of view on these things, where can they look you up? 

Katie O’Malley  39:06  

Yeah, so there there are three main places. If you’re on the social medias, at encouraged coach Chicago on both Instagram and Facebook, you can find daily posts about lots of workplace leadership things. And then also encourage coaching.org is the website we have a new website launching in September. So if if you get there then hope you can hope you can stop by and see it. Also, we have a work place induced trauma coaching group that is going to be launching in December. So if you’re curious to learn more, or just have a not even a safe space, a brave space, to share your experiences with others alongside a coach, I encourage you to be on the lookout for that group that’s launching in December as well. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:06  

Wonderful. Well, Katie, thank you again for coming on the Career Clarity Show. 

Katie O’Malley

Thanks so much for having me, Lisa.

Lisa Lewis Miller 

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally find the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.

About the Author Lisa Lewis

Lisa is a career change coach helping individuals feeling stuck to find work that fits. She helps people clarify who they are, what they want most, and what a great job for them looks like so they can make their transition as easily as possible. Lisa completed coaching training in Jenny Blake’s Pivot Method, Danielle LaPorte’s Fire Starter Sessions, Kate Swoboda's Courageous Living Coaching Certification, and the World Coaches Institute. In addition to that, she apprenticed with the top career coaches in the country so she can do the best possible work with — and for — you. She's helped more than 500 individuals move into more fulfilling, yummy careers and would be honored to get to serve you next!

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