Episode 117: A Career Clarity Show Takeover with Career Clarity Coaches Jenn Smith and Kelley Shields

This is a very special episode of the Career Clarity Show. Career Clarity Coaches Jenn Smith and Kelley Shields are taking over the podcast to discuss a topic that’s coming up for a lot of people right now – What happens if your employer wants you back in the office full time, but you don’t want that?

As more and more people have gotten vaccinated, the CDC has lifted the mask mandate (and then put it back) and offices are starting to open back up. So many of our clients crave the flexibility and option to work from home. It’s exciting to see that more employers are now open to it. 

Jenn and Kelley break down leading virtual teams, how to make it easier for your employer to say yes to remote work, and how to return to work if you do have to return to the office.

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• Kelley Shields
  • Career Clarity Coach Kelley Shields
  • Episode 114: Sabbaticals and Work Breaks with Kelley Shields
  • Episode 99: The Impact of Work Stress with Kelley Shields
  • Episode 81: How to Overcome Shame with Kelley Shields
  • Episode 37: You’re not undisciplined: Hacking Gretchen Rubin’s Four Tendencies for career change with Career Clarity coach Kelley Shields
  • Episode 19: Plan B: How to find a great career when plan A didn’t work. An interview with Kelley Shields

• Jenn Smith
  • Learn more about Jenn (and apply to work with her!) in her coaching profile
  • Episode 20: The guide to creating a tenacity-driven career with Jenn Smith
  • Episode 40: Monitoring and Managing Your Energy at Work with Career Clarity coach Jenn Smith
  • Episode 54: Mastering the Top 5 Mental and Motivational Habits with Career Clarity certified coach Jenn Smith
  • Episode 87: Tactical Tips for Marketing Yourself with Jenn Smith
  • Episode 106: Practical Tips To Make Your Career Change Happen with Jenn Smith
  • Connect with Jenn on LinkedIn
  • Follow Jenn on Instagram at @flourish.careers
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

Subscribe to The Career Clarity Show on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and Google Play.

And, follow The Career Clarity Show on Facebook and Instagram — and sign up below to receive emails when new episodes come out!

Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04  

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host. And each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career.

Kelley Shields  0:32  

Hello, everyone, we have a special episode of the Career Clarity Show for you today. I’m Career Clarity Show coach Kelley shields. 

Jenn Smith  0:40  

And I’m Career Clarity Show coach Jenn Smith.

Kelley Shields  0:43  

And we are taking over the show from Lisa today. And we’re here to talk about a topic that’s coming up for a lot of people right now is more and more people have gotten vaccinated, the CDC has lifted the mask mandate and offices are starting to open back up. What happens if your employer wants you back in the office full time, but you don’t want that?

Jenn Smith  1:06  

Yes. And this topic is near and dear to my heart, because so many of my clients and our clients crave the flexibility and option to work from home. And so I’m thrilled that more employers are now open to it. And recently, I’ve been reading up on this topic. And I found some interesting statistics. So Gartner revealed that 48% of employees will keep working remotely, at least some of the time. And that one in five will work remotely full time. So I thought that that was really interesting. And then from an organizational perspective, three quarters of employers are planning to shift to a more remote to more remote work post pandemic, which, again, to me is just a glimmer of hope and light in this in this tough situation that we’ve all been working through. It’s really interesting, too, that folks in organizations are starting to kind of shift some of their thinking around this. So for example, Google, I know initially stated that their employees had to return to the office three times a week. And then they actually backtracked, and change their decision allowing for more flexibility. So the good news is that it seems as though employers are really willing to listen to their employees and allow for some flexibility.

Kelley Shields  2:26  

I agree, I think it’s so fantastic that all of these possibilities are starting to open up and that we see, so many options happening starting to happen for people that they didn’t have before this really horrible pandemic, but still, you know, leaves a lot of people out there who they may not fall within any of those situations. And so what do you do, if that’s not you, um, there are a lot of people who I know are going to be thrilled to go back to the office, at least to some extent. But you know, a lot of people found it to be really helpful changed to be able to work from home, they’re happier and more productive. And they like to continue that way, at least part time, maybe full time. And there are also people who are still feeling anxiety about how they’ll adjust to returning to like their previous levels of in person interaction. And the American Psychological Association did a poll and found that 49% of Americans are feeling anxious about how they’ll adjust to in person interactions. So I don’t know how long that level of anxiety will continue. But it’s there now. So it’s a big deal.

Jenn Smith  3:33  

It is a big deal. And at Career Clarity Show, we talk a lot about the four pillars of career fulfillment. And lifestyle is a big pillar for a lot of people. And a lot of our clients prioritize that pillar. And this topic has been falling into, you know, many of those conversations most recently. So today, we’re going to share some of our top tips on managing the return to the office. So I’m excited to dive in.

Kelley Shields  3:59  

Yeah, me too. And, you know, Jenn mentioned that she hears a lot about this. I care a lot about this, too. It’s amazing how fired up we have gotten trying to prepare for this podcast, and just how strongly we both feel about this topic. And for me, I mean, yeah, my person I haven’t disagree with that’s a really caring about this issue. And I, you know, I’m someone who cares a lot about practicality and efficiency. So, if you can do your job from home, it has just never made any sense to me why you should have to go into an office to do it, at least not every day. Part of that’s because I live in the Washington DC area, where commutes are brutal. And they’re telling me that I have to make that commute so that in my situation, I could sit by myself in an office all day and work on a computer, but everyone I was going to need to interact with do my work that day, including my boss, with In another state or country, just made no sense to me. And like it drove me crazy from that, by practicality, efficiency loving heart. And I mean, yeah, I will say that even more so because I was working for a telecommunications company. So you still kind of, Oh, yeah, practicality, efficiency, rationality, part of me just really wanted things to be different. And it’s not that I wasn’t fine physically going into an office. I mean, I’m an extrovert. I like interacting with people. But it was, Do I need to be there? Do I need to deal with this commute? If there’s no reason, like if I had meetings in the city, if I was working with someone in the office, or honestly, even if they just felt better about me having to be in the office, like three days a week so that there’d be the potential for collaboration? Oh, that makes sense to me personally, and I personally would have been fine with it. But then dia, just flat out concept of Oh, work is that the office just makes absolutely no sense to me in a knowledge economy, at least not on an everyday perspective. Honestly, that was a big factor in me needing to leave that job. When I started struggling with my health, it was making a huge difference if I could work from home, even one day a week, even periodically. And if that employer would have let me keep doing that, or formalize that, hey, it’s fine to work from home one day a week, if you don’t have any meetings. Miracle would have been two days a week, I think I really, I think I would have stayed a lot longer. So yeah, it’s just been, it’s just really important to me in my personal life. And you know, one thing I think, that is also important for people to think about, especially managers and those who are making decisions about, you know, whether employees will be able to work from home, will it be able to work remotely, it’s also just just take a minute and think about how people life circumstances are different. And people just have different individual needs and are wired differently. And I remember having conversations with co worker about how frustrated we were because it seemed like the decision that Oh, you can’t work from home was just being made because the decision makers personally didn’t like working from home. And you know, that made us feel unheard and unimportant, was also really frustrating because they both had just life circumstances that seemed easier to work from an office all the time. One of them had like a full time nanny slash housekeeper slash cook, who was taking care of everything with the kids and around the house. And the second had a spouse who worked only part time, and so it was taking care of a lot of the life and house and kids stuff. Whereas, you know, my other co worker, and I just had very different circumstances, and saving a little time or energy or being able to use our workdays efficiently. We finished up early or had a break over lunch, to be able to go run an errand or not have to deal with the extra time for commuting made a really big deal for each of us. Yeah, so Dan, I know you actually have had a lot of experience with managing in a remote environment. Um, so I’m curious what you would have to say about that, and just about your own experience.

Jenn Smith  8:19  

Yeah, for sure. And Kelley, just to kind of add to your point, I mean, I remember when I was, you know, kind of forced to go into the office every single day. And it really didn’t make sense, because my team was also all over the place, but just, you know, having some time like to your point around the end, they’re having some time to, like do laundry while you’re working at home and not have to like shove all your errands into the weekend. And then before you know it, your weekend is over, because you did errands all weekend, and you’re still so tired and just have to go back into the grind, like during the week again, you know, so having a little bit of extra breathing room through the week to do some of those errands and just do some of those day to day things makes such a difference in your happiness and your lifestyle and your work and all of the things and so I you know, I totally agree with that. And you know, from a manager’s perspective, you know, just, you know, I’ve been leading virtual teams for years before the pandemic, and just having that compassion and empathy for your employees to have a life outside of work is such a big deal. You know, regardless of your own personal situation, if you prefer to go in the office, or you don’t I mean, it doesn’t matter. You’re you’re leading humans, and they have needs outside of the workplace. And I think that that is just something that is so lost in our leadership in society today. A lot of it not 100%, but a lot of it so. So yeah, I mean, I’ve been leading Oh, go ahead.

Kelley Shields  9:44  

No, just say yeah, thanks for thanks for the way you articulated that. I just think that’s the human element of work in management. Yeah.

Jenn Smith  9:53  

Yeah. Yeah. And to add to that point, I mean, leading virtual teams, you know, really when I was in in a place To have the privilege, quite frankly, to be able to do this, I shared with my team that we always like I wanted them to focus on one thing. And that one thing was getting the job done. It was more about measuring the output and quality of work versus their time. So it’s like this old school mentality of like clocking in and out, it just didn’t matter. And I always told my team, I’m like, I don’t care if you are getting your job done with your toes in the sand on the beach, get your job done, you know. And of course, if you need to be at a meeting, you know, with a client or with us, or whatever it is, like, make sure you’re there. But it doesn’t matter where you are getting the work done. And so in my experience, hiring the right people, igniting the trust in them to get the job done, regardless of the time brings that human element and really can maximize your team’s success. So I’ll just share a couple key factors that I’ve learned over the years in terms of leading virtual teams. So there’s kind of three factors, there’s communication, which is the biggest especially you know, you’re not there to see each other, you’re not there to have those office drive by. So communication and over communicating is number one, being consistent with your team schedules and team, you know, mechanisms in terms of communication is number two. And then the third is creating an element of connection and care for your employees. So I’ll just talk about each of these quickly. So over communicate, when you are focused on a goal and getting the job done, you have to communicate your expectations as a leader, and communicate the vision and the goals of the team. And so painting a picture and communicating a picture of that result is going to allow your team to be able to use their time the most effectively. A lot of times leaders I think, get these ideas, and they have these visions in their own head, but they’re not sure if they’ve articulated it, right, which causes a lot of confusion for your team. And when you’re not in that office, you know, kind of day to day environment, you have to effectively over communicate that. So sharing your expectations of the work that needs to be done, being crystal clear about when it needs to be done by and just over communicating these expectations is critical. And I even I even tell people to communicate how you like to be communicated to. So if your virtual team and you don’t see each other, you know, if you’re a manager, you know, is it okay for your team to text you? Do you prefer that they you know, Skype or instant message you? Is it slack? Is it email? Is it voicemail like how do you prefer to be communicated to is a big piece of this. And just sharing that upfront alleviates a lot of the complication or the guessing that might go in to it from a team member perspective. The second piece is consistency. So set up a team schedule and stick to it. So the second you set up a team meeting and cancel it because something else comes up every other week, or whatever it is, it’s sending a message that you know it the goals of your team and the work is not important. So you want to make sure that you set up a consistent schedule. So one of the things that I you know, the schedule we used to have is starting the week with a team meeting either on a Monday or Tuesday morning, do a midweek one on one check in with each of your employees. And then close the week with Friday reflections, which was just literally a 10 minute email to me as the leader about, you know, what they got accomplished for the week and what they had challenges with. So I always felt like, you know, making sure that we stuck to that schedule, everybody knew what was happening when it was happening. They knew that we had these interactions scheduled. And it actually made things a lot more productive. Kelley, to your point about productive and efficiency. It was like less interruptions and disruptions throughout the day because we knew we had this consistent schedule that we were that we were working to. And then the third component is connection and care. And so this is probably one of the hardest things because you’re you know, your virtual and you’re all over the place, and how do you build, you know, relationships and connection with each other. One of the things, you know, that I love to doing is that we had a team meeting every week, and we would spend 10 minutes in the beginning of the meeting with like a simple icebreaker. So it just be like a quick question. Like if you had a million dollars to contribute to a cause what would it be and everyone just shared you know, what they what they were thinking so yeah, it’s a really fun one. And then the other one that I always loved hearing from people is if you had one song running on repeat in the background of your life, what would it be? I don’t but

Kelley Shields  14:43  

I don’t right now I have a good part of the song running through the back of my head. Like I think that kind of wraps on like all I do is when when that I’m really being honest and I’m saying that would be the background.

Jenn Smith  14:57  

I love it. Maybe like You know, the what is it walking on sunshine or just to like, keep the upbeat day to day, you know, going on going on the right track. But we have, these are fun, these are fun like iceberg and you get to know each other. And that really helps kind of break the ice and, you know, allows your team to bond in a really fun and simple way. So that’s one idea. And then just like showing that you hear like simple celebrations, crafting fun, you know, birthday emails, or work anniversary celebrations or, you know, life events, you know, and just like sending a picture on an email and inviting the team to join in on the celebration is really fun. I always like sending things in the mail. And Kelley, you’re you actually reminded me of Punkpost, which is such a fun card, you know, kind of build your own card, and artists make the card and sending somebody something in the mail is such a fun way to show that you care and that you’re connected to your team. So

Kelley Shields  15:59  

I just want to give a shout out to Punkpost,, it is easy for you to use. And they’re the best cards, they are the best cards. 

Jenn Smith  16:05  

Yeah, I love them. I love it. And then lastly, I would say just as a leader, leading a virtual team, set your own boundaries and stick to them and know how you’re affecting your team. So just because your team’s not commuting to the office doesn’t mean they’re available. 24 seven and thinking about when you’re sending emails, and when you’re responding to emails is going to set the standard and set the boundaries for your entire team. So you know, before you spend your weekend catching up on emails, you know, take a pause and think about how that that impact might have on your team and how they might feel like they have to respond right then in there. And just setting those expectations I think is really important when we’re working in this world of of, you know, virtual reality. So there’s a lot of cool technology out there supporting us. And I’m really excited to see where it’s going. So if you’re in a situation where you’re expected to return to work, and you’re feeling anxious about it, we have a couple tips that prepared for you. So Kelley, I’ll pitch it back to you.

Kelley Shields  17:03  

Thanks. And I just think that you gave such amazing tips that really segue into what we’re you know, the specific tips that we’re giving you right now. And so I even encourage you to go back and listen to what Jenn just said, as you’re thinking about continuing your employer that you want to work from home. So yeah, first tip is to go Yes, please do thoughtfully pitch your employer. And even if they’re not, even if they have said, oh, we’re not going to do work from home, even if you know, the corporate policy has been overall going back to the office, I mean, give us a try. And first I would start out with I recommend starting out with, you know, sharing why this is important to you. And have you been able to be more productive from home for example, maybe it’s made your life a lot easier in terms of being able to have the kind of balance you want, or you think it will provide that once childcare has gotten easier, um, has it increased your satisfaction with your work and with being part of the company, are you more engaged and present because you’re not, you know, rushing to get ready and deal with your commute, and then make it to the office on time and then rush out at the end of the day to go pick up your kids from daycare. So, you know, provide a little memorability at first and like help them see you as a human being for why this does matter to you. And then second, pay yourself in your manager, she’s in the company’s shoes, think about what their concerns or reservations might be what the business needs might be, and think about how you can proactively address those concerns. So for example, bringing evidence that you’ve kept up with your work and done a great job remotely. Um, those those tips that Jenn was just explaining about bring those in and ways to address potential, you know, concerns your employer might have. So be ready to discuss, like how you’d want to communicate and figuring out a plan for communication and the consistent plan for communication. So how teamwork and collaboration can still happen. And also, I’m providing examples of what other companies are doing the different models that are out there. So, you know, we mentioned Google already, which initially, initially was a pretty big change for Google even to announce the hybrid work option. And now they’ve even changed that with the 20% of employees get to work from home full time, but so many big companies are going to work from home permanently or hybrid model pudding city group, board, even some California state government workers. I’m always impressed anytime, like we can look at like a government and they’re kind of on the cutting edge of something. 

Jenn Smith  19:43  

Especially California, especially California.

Kelley Shields  19:48  

And like Twitter’s gone to like permanent work from home, I believe the last time I checked, so, you know, talk about what those companies are doing. They’re great benchmarks and see if you can find you know, some of your someone in your industry. Some companies in your industry, some pure companies and competitors, but if not, there are so many examples out there right now. And I think we have, you know, even just, I think we can post in the show notes, just you know, some shortlist of companies that are doing this that you can start your research with. But another idea is just to think about, if there are ways that you can think of to increase the transparency of what’s going on in your daily work, and how you’re getting your tasks or functions done. So that can make it easier for your employer to say, yes, it kind of addresses that, you know, trust issue that, you know, I don’t think it’s necessary personally, but hey, there’s a trust issue about the people working from home, and there just is sometimes let’s try to address it proactively and see what you can do to ease that concern. But also, you know, this is probably not going to happen in a single conversation, it’s one thing I would say to keep in mind. So, you know, be persistent, and just be ready for this to take a while everyone is trying to figure out what the new normal is, and it’s going to be, and they’re figuring it out in real time. So you know, recognize that, you know, you may need to be flexible, you’re going to probably ask them to be flexible. And it you might not be able to come up with a fast, easy permanent plan from conversation one. So even again, just be flexible, and just try to come back and make that conversation keep happening, I really liked the idea of suggesting a trial run. And then without a pre determined plan to reconvene and evaluate, you know how that went and see what adjustments might need to be made. That makes it a lot, that’s something that’s a lot easier for your employer to say yes to you, then a permanent change. And then also recognize that this transition period might be really stressful for your employer, not just for employees, there’s a lot of uncertainty that they haven’t, they’re trying to figure out too. So maybe in your particular situation, it could be a really, you know, beneficial thing to offer to go back into the office more than you’d actually really want to do for the transition period, just as an effort of like, showing how you support the business and if they’re expressing what they would need. But as you do that, you’d also be setting the expectation that, you know, as things get sorted out in the initial confusion, and transition, get sorted through, you’d want to revisit the conversation about working from home and, you know, set that out for, you know, four to six weeks, maybe it would be my thought, but maybe even two weeks, depending on your particular company. Um, and also, if you’re just if you’re uncomfortable, going back to see if it’s possible to start slow and take some small steps, do you? Would they be open to you going into the office for half day, or just two or three days a week to get started with? And maybe that would be enough of a transition to help you decide, Oh, actually, I’m okay with going back into the office full time. Or maybe it would be enough to give them some time to get their ducks in a row and for you to have these conversations. So yeah, those are those are my tips. Any thoughts on those Jenn or any follow up bots?

Jenn Smith  23:15  

Yeah, I love a couple things that you said I love the trial run idea. So again, kind of putting my, my manager hat back on, if I had an employee that came to me, you know, free to company policy that said, Everyone had to come back to the office, you know, and I had an employee come to me, who we really didn’t want to lose from the organization, we didn’t want them to leave. And they came to me and shared, you know, really well thought out plan and reasons why they wanted to do this. And they showcase the results while they were doing it and, you know, wanted to do a trial run, I feel like, as a manager, I would be really open to giving it a try. Because it’s not like the employee was coming and like demanding anything, or they you know, they were, you know, giving me an ultimatum or anything like that, it was just like, Hey, can we try this, and here’s the reasons why. And if I could see that it was really well thought out, I think I would be really open to Giving that a shot. So, you know, I think that that’s a great idea. And I, I also love your point about being compassionate about what employers are also going through. So I know, I mean, just, you know, kind of seeing my husband, he works for a large company, and you know, just the regulations and the things that changed and he leads a team and like, every day something was different, you know, and like having to kind of switch gears and abide by these rules. And like, you know, just kind of like figure it out as you go is really hard for leaders and employers as well. So having some compassion around that as you’re, you know, kind of thinking through your your return to work, I think is a really smart way to approach it. So I think these those tips that you came up with are, are very smart. So yeah.

Kelley Shields  24:54  

Hey, um, and I’m curious what you would have to say about what if you’re employer You know, says, No, we really need you to come back to the office, like, what would you say to people?

Jenn Smith  25:06  

Yeah, so what I would say is, you know, be intentional about designing your new work day. So if you do need to return to the office, you know, you don’t have to go back in the same rushed and breathless way that you left it. So there’s an opportunity to, I think, be really intentional about it. So, you know, think about how you want to design your workday, you know, maybe if you do have a morning commute, like maybe you can adjust your start time to be a little bit later in the day after that morning commute. And you can really have the opportunity to design your workday in a much more thoughtful way. So you know, you know, even your your day to day schedule, like, you know, if you if you left the office, and it was like back to back to back to back meetings and tasks and you know, everything on top of each other, you know, take a step back and redesign that, you know, how do you want your day to look like maybe it’s blocking, I used to block ttt time to think on my calendar, where I was, like, I just need a breather, you know, I need to be able to think and so I intentionally built that into my calendar. So people didn’t, you know, book me back to back to back. So I think this is, you know, a lot of us have have had time to kind of reflect and think about what they want to do when they return to work and what they want to leave behind. So, and then ultimately, if you know, this new paradigm is forcing you to make the decision, you know, to stay or go. You know, that’s another topic that we work through I’m pretty regular basis with our Career Clarity, Show clients. So a couple of things to kind of help you evaluate, you know, if you are making that decision to stay or go. So three things that I you know, questions I usually ask folks, so one is, are you aligned to your company’s mission and values? Do you like the people you work with? That’s a really big deal? And are you learning new skills? So kind of evaluating those three questions can sometimes help you make a decision on whether or not you want to stay or go? And obviously, you know, this remote working is also a decision a decision to come into play there?

Kelley Shields  27:14  

Yeah, um, I think those are really great things. Because there’s so much to think about, it’s not an easy decision to, you know, think about Oh, is do I want to stay? Or do I want to go? And is this a deal breaker? I really like to help people get clear on, you know, what the good things are, and then also what’s most important to them, and, um, you know, has working remotely, I would just encourage people to ask, because working remote remotely become a non negotiable for you, and really be honest about that. But also ask yourself, Well, does that need to be full time? Can it be a hybrid model, where you go into the office sometime and work from home, part time. And then also ask yourself if you’re really struggling with how important this is to you, if you had to choose between working remotely? And another priority you have? Maybe that would be, you know, continuing to work with your team working with working at a company that you’re aligned with their mission? Yeah, growing your skills? Um, what would you pick, and sometimes forcing yourself into the uncomfortable situation of Ooh, if I have to choose between these two things, what’s most important can help you get some clarity for yourself on, you know, if you can’t work something out with your employer? Um, is that a deal breaker for you? And do you want to start looking for a new new job?

Jenn Smith  28:39  

Yeah, in reality is that is a decision that a lot of people are being, you know, forced to make at this point. And again, kind of in summary, one tiny glimmer of goodness that came from this pandemic is that we have a future of work where flexible work environments can and are becoming more frequent. So. So that brings our conversation today, to a close. Thank you so much for listening. If you would like more information on this topic, we’re going to include some of our articles and resources in the show notes. And you can always find either Kelley or myself and the rest of the Career Clarity team at GetCareerClarity.com.

Kelley Shields  29:23  

Thank you so much for jumping on here and during the show and taking over for Lisa and we thank you for giving us the opportunity.

Lisa Lewis Miller  29:38  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book career clarity finally finds the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.