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Episode 81: Overcoming Shame with Kelley Shields

Welcome to The Career Clarity Show, where we help you find a lucrative, soulful, and joyful career path for you!

Today we are digging into a topic that is by far not the sexiest topic, but probably one of the most useful and one of the most informative topics when it comes to thinking about how to approach your career change in a way that it will actually happen. We’re talking about shame.

Shame is one of the biggest things that the Career Clarity team finds that people struggle with when they’re thinking about making any kind of change in their job in their career in their life. Our guest Career Clarity Coach Kelley Shields and I are going to be peeling back the identity worth and expectation factors that all come into thinking about what’s next for you.

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Transcript:

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04  

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host. And each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Hello, and welcome, clarity seekers, I’m your host career change coach, Lisa Lewis Miller. And on today’s episode of the Career Clarity Show, we are digging into a topic that is by far, not the sexiest topic we have ever talked about on the podcast, but probably one of the most useful and one of the most informative topics when it comes to thinking about how to approach your career change in a way that it will actually happen. What does this topic you might be asking yourself? Well, it’s shame. Shame is one of the big things that we find that people struggle with the most, when they’re thinking about making any kind of change in their job in their career in their life. And it’s really interesting, and I’m gonna get into this even more here in a moment with my guest, who I’m so excited to introduce to you here in a hot second. And she and I both find this to be really interesting, because when we make decisions in our careers, there’s nothing that is morally or inherently better or worse, about any job, any industry, any role, any function, any anything. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s neutral. It’s purely a representation of your interests, your preference, your beliefs, your values, your ideas, your hopes, your dreams, what works for you, or how you want to spend your days. And yet, when it comes to careers, what we do can oftentimes get a little bit too tied up in who we are, our identity, our self worth, and a huge piece of this, which is one of the biggest triggers of shame, guilt and other associated emotions. The expectations put on us, by ourselves, by our family, by our community, by our culture, or by society writ large. So when we start thinking about what might be different, what might be next, where we can find the most joyful, exciting thing for ourselves in our work and our life, things can get messy. And so today’s guest and I are going to be peeling back the identity worth and expectation factors that all come into thinking about what’s next for you. But you’re allowed to do what feels good, and navigating any of the emotional responses that can come up along the way. Today’s guest on the Career Clarity Show is the wonderful repeat guest Kelley Shields. If you haven’t listened to Kelly’s other episodes of the podcast, I’m going to make sure that we link them in the show notes so that you can get all into the Kelley Shields rabbit hole and listen to her and love her insight and her perspective on everything. And I’ll tell you that for today’s episode of the podcast, when Kelly and I were talking about what to talk about, because Kelly is a Career Clarity Show certified coach, she’s on our team, she works one on one with our clients. She’s amazing. If you want to work with her, we’ll put more information about that in the show notes too. But we were talking about what kind of topics could really serve our listeners and serve our community today. And I was totally running down this this path of saying, you know what, we should totally riff on personality and assessments, because we talked about that a bit in our last episode, and it was really well received. So I started thinking, Oh, my gosh, we should talk about the enneagram. And go deep into that. If any of you have gone through the Career Clarity Show process with myself with Kelly with any of the other coaches on the team, you know that we love talking about personality assessments and how they factor into you finding a fabulous fit for your career. But Kelley was onto something. And she said, You know, I feel like there might be something even more important that we can share with people when it comes to understanding, processing dealing with and moving through feelings, especially shame. So with that, Kelley, welcome to the Career Clarity Show. 

Kelley Shields  4:26  

Thanks, Lisa. It is really great to be here. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  4:29  

Well, I love that you and the work that you do with clients you’ve picked up on and noticed so much that when we’re supporting people with making changes in their lives, many times the biggest barriers to making those changes aren’t physical barriers. It’s not time. It’s not money. It’s not how smart you are. It’s not resourcing per se because almost all of those are things that you can get really creative and strategic about working around and solving around But that sometimes the biggest barrier to tapping into that inner creativity and resourcefulness is an emotional one. And I want to start us at our conversation today around this question of the difference between what I do and who I am, or work and our worth, our vocation and our identity. Can you talk a little bit about why the distinction in those two topics or those two questions is important to you?

Kelley Shields  5:34  

Yeah, thanks, Lisa. I mean, you’re right. It is really important to me personally, not just because I see how important it is and working with my clients. But my own story, that was a big piece of it, I was an attorney for over a decade in Washington, DC, and I got really used to introducing myself as an attorney. And it was, you know, a default, oh, here’s who I am. And this one little slice of here’s what you need to know about me. I’m smart, I’m competent, I have a good job. I’m capable, like, think of these things about me. And so even though I hated being an attorney, when I presented myself to others, and when I when I asked, When I answered the question, that is generally the first question you get asked when you meet somebody new, which is, so what do you do? That’s an that’s, who are you question. And that’s a more used situation. But the question is about something that you do. And I, like many other people got tangled up in my answer to that, which was, I’m an attorney. And I think I really noticed that when I left the full time practice of law, because I had a really hard time answering that question afterwards. And I would answer with, oh, I’m a recovering attorney, because that was more comfortable. And it took it just, it just is part of the identity, I think, I think because at least in the US, in part is part of that social introduction, introducing myself getting to know somebody, which is an identity issue. And yeah, it was very difficult for me to make that change all the way. So it can really, it can really be something that can hold you back. Because giving up part of your identity is a really scary emotional thing, even if you’re not consciously thinking that through.

Lisa Lewis Miller  7:36  

Totally, and one of the things I think I’m hearing in your answer here, too, is that there were certain connotations about what your work meant about who you are, what you valued, how fancy you were, how much money you were making, who you were connected to what doors you could open for other people, how they could use you, you know why you’re a valuable person that were difficult to kind of grapple with and wrestle with letting go of in pursuit of a more authentic true version of yourself? Because there’s sort of one question of, do I enjoy the work? Does it feel good? Do I want to keep doing it? But then there’s a second question of, I almost think about this through the lens of career coach, Adrian clap, hack, he has this this model, which was in the original draft of my book, and then I pulled it out for the final draft of the book. So I’m sorry, for those of you who have the book, and you’re not getting this particular piece of it. He uses a model called instrumental versus fundamental value. So a fundamental value is, do I love this work? Do I enjoy this? Does it feel fulfilling for me? Does it feel like it’s using all of me, fundamental value is related to the four pillars of career fulfillment methodology that we talked about here all the time. But there’s another kind of value. There’s instrumental value. And instrumental value is when something has value because of what it lets you get to. It’s not valuable in and of itself, per se, but it’s valuable as a conduit, or an instrument or sort of like a little taxi cab to get you from point A to point B. And in a lot of ways, when we’re sort of in a social situation, we’re introducing ourselves, we’re using work as a proxy to tell people about who we are, your job title becomes instrumental evaluable because of the connotations that it carries with it. And it can be really tricky. When you come to notice that fundamentally your job does not feel good does not fit you is not something that you value. But instrumentally in your social circles within your company, within your family within your culture. It gets you certain things it gets you street credit gets you trust, it gets you speaking engagements, it gets you job offers, whatever It is, and peeling apart those two types of value can help us I think, to understand some of where the shame comes from. And, and also have a little bit more empathy with ourselves about why it can feel really challenging to start networking, or start reintroducing yourself in a totally new way as you’re navigating what’s next.

Kelley Shields  10:23  

I love how you just put that. And it’s also funny because I have a client who recently brought up that concept with me of like, realizing that there were certain careers that she was thinking about that were furthering instrumental values, but not fundamental values. And that’s where she was running into some problems. Um, but yeah, I think that’s really interesting. Um, and I do, I do also want to give some encouragement, even after, after, you know, a transition period, I’m highly enthusiastic about telling people that I’m a career and life coach, and it feels really good. And there’s so much enthusiasm to it. But I also wonder if some of that could have even just been that, you know, I wasn’t excited about my job. And I didn’t want to sit around and talk about work all of the time. And so it, but it’s pretty easy to just say, Oh, I’m an attorney. And, you know, you can just shorthand a lot, you can shorthand a lot about yourself and get a lot of Halo benefits, at least with that job title. And at least in DC, that might not be the same in every community. Um, but yeah, especially here, where a lot of people are attorneys are there are a lot of people working for the government or trying to work in I’ll say, important government roles. And yeah, you can get some respect and get taken seriously pretty easily. And it feels good to have, you know, a shorthand way of getting that. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think the, we just don’t want anyone to get stuck in it. And, you know, I just yeah, we just don’t want anyone to get stuck in that we’re stuck by that. Because you don’t have to, um, you can get a lot more out of lining up those fundamental and instrumental values and being able to communicate in a different way about who you are. And maybe that can include work, but in a different way.

Lisa Lewis Miller  12:26  

I love that. And I want to go back to something you said a moment ago, because it really sort of stuck out in my mind, which is that the way that your title is perceived can vary pretty dramatically based on the community that you’re in, or the social circle that you’re talking to in any given moment. I think it’s one of the things that makes the shame around making a job change. So particularly challenging, because when you are introducing yourself in a social situation, you have a sense of how you think your title might land, you have some expected outcomes, if you’ve been introducing yourself a certain way for years and years, that people might say, oh, wow, that must be you’re really smart. If you’re a lawyer, or Oh, wow, you must love school, or man, you must make a boatload of money, you know, or like whatever the things are, that people might have a certain perceptions. But that those perceptions have big differences depending on geographically where you are, socioeconomically, where you are, culturally, who you’re speaking with, what your family’s perception or reputation is of a certain a certain line of work. And I bring this up, because I think that when you start to look at how many different ways people might react to your title, it starts to kind of illuminate the fact that we can’t control how people are going to respond because every single person could respond differently. And Kelly, knowing your own story, I would bet money that when you introduce yourself as a DC lawyer in DC, you know, at a bar back in our pre COVID time when you could do that, versus when you go home. I bet it has a very different kind of kind of landing.

Kelley Shields  14:21  

I think you’re right. And, um, I even think back to it’s just funny, there’s so many factors that do come into that and I do think it’s helpful to start recognizing, oh, wait, this has nothing to actually do with the job. This has to do with completely different stuff going on in people’s heads. Um, yes, it is. Just, it’s kind of almost not a big deal here. It’s like okay, check, you check. It’s almost like a checkbox in DC. Okay, you have a good enough job, or you’re smart enough. That’s just not the case in other areas. I’m from Kentucky and I’ve lived in Georgia. Before And then I would be fine saying I’m an attorney and either of those, but it’s almost weird. It’s much more unusual. It’s not every other person you meet went to law school, whereas where I currently live in the DC area, it just kind of a standard. Okay, you have a good job, answer. Um, but what’s also funny is that even beyond that, even just people, I’m thinking about even within like, if you coaches as a community, I’m a coach that you and I both know very well who was in lead of a coaching certification program I did in addition to Career Clarity, Show I had a conversation with her reminded her that I spent years as an attorney, and she was like, Oh, wait, yeah, I always forget you were an attorney, you’re so happy and bubbly and nice, and just be what she viewed from the word attorney about somebody was just a lot of character things about someone who’s unhappy or gruff, or analytical and not social, which is just an image, and I’ll just about hers. But they’re just all sorts of ways. And what you’re saying that people can impute identity traits to you, based on their thoughts about adult title.

Lisa Lewis Miller  16:19  

So I feel like it’s really important to highlight that people are projecting their stuff on you, you can’t control that, you can’t be responsible for that. And that some of the stuff they may be projecting on you about your work may be totally, totally wrong. You know, I know, Kelly, that you’ve got a past of either personally, or working with clients who have had experiences with toxic environments, where you know, even the most generous things that people might assume about your boss, your co workers, your work life balance might be completely completely off. Can you share a little bit about that?

Kelley Shields  16:59  

Yeah, and it’s certainly not limited to lawyers. And I do want to be clear, just in case anyone in my life is listening, I worked for a really great law firm with great people who did not do this to me. But um, that’s shockingly unusual. Much more usual, is that if you’re working in a law firm, for example, or Yeah, often as a lawyer, but in a law firm, oh, my goodness, the expectation is absolutely insane, crazy hours, and having just getting tons of criticism. I literally know people who’ve had books thrown at them, or things thrown at them by angry partners, being yelled at being called awful names. And the premise, you’re really immersed in that environment. You’re working a lot. So that’s what you see all the time and went to law schools, a lot of people you know, are lawyers, and everyone around you, excellent. It’s normal, and you complain about it. And then you’re the one who’s criticized. So you’re told you have unrealistic expectations, you start wondering, like, Okay, I guess this is normal. I’m, the problem is me. I want too much, I guess what I just watched too much. And if you just can’t recognize that it’s not true. I mean, I even know, of someone who a law firm actively lied to in firing her about her work quality, because they wanted to protect they at that time, it was a few years ago, had a policy and said probably, you know, we don’t lay people off. So they didn’t. But, you know, the big case that she was working on went away, and they didn’t have enough work. But they didn’t want to lay her off, they wanted to be able to keep saying it. So they said her work quality had just changed drastically since all the years before when she’d been like a superstar and told she’s on the fast track to becoming a partner. And and so they fired her and told her her work, quality changed. And of course, she internalized that you start internalizing all of this craziness and not being treated and criticized badly as normal. And then you think there’s something wrong with you for wanting something different.

Lisa Lewis Miller  19:21  

Yeah, these are all like classic symptoms of abusive relationships. Like when when you are in an abusive relationship with your work. People are going to be telling you your feelings aren’t valid, your expectations, your boundaries aren’t allowed. You’re not doing enough. 60 hours isn’t enough. 80 hours is enough. If you’re sleeping, you’re slacking, right? There’s so many things that people can be told by their workplaces that can then amplify all the shame that they’re feeling because they feel defective. They feel like they’re not enough. They feel like they are asking for the moon. Ladies and gentlemen, if you’re listening to this, and you want to have a 40 or 45 Hour Workweek You are not asking for the moon. If you want to work in a place where people are not throwing books at you, you are not asking for the moon. If you want to work in a place where your boss is respectful of you, respectful of your team and respectful of your clients, you’re not asking for the moon. And the more that people believe these abusers, that this is just not how things are done in DC or not at this firm or not, you know, wherever the more difficult it is for us to create the sort of happy, mentally healthy workplaces that we all want to be at. And the more that we enable some of that abusive behavior to continue. And let me let me jump in here and give the caveats of if you believe that you might be in an abusive situation with your work. Number one, definitely, definitely talk to professionals, this would be this could potentially be an attorney, this could potentially be a therapist, this could potentially be a whistleblower hotline within your organization, look for places to go. And number two, it is not your fault. Right? It is not your fault that the team is treating you this way, if the organization is acting this way, you didn’t do anything to deserve this. It’s not right, it’s not on you. And thirdly, there are potentially things that you can do to be protecting yourself getting support and getting help both in the short term and in the long term. But if you take anything away from listening to this, if you’re in a position where you’re getting shamed by your employer, by your team, by your company, by your industry, because of having reasonable expectations for what you want your work situation to feel like, don’t buy it. Don’t give up on your dreams, don’t give up on your needs. Your own mental and emotional health are way, way too important to just write off and say I guess I was wrong, I guess it is unreasonable to expect that I will be treated with respect or that my boundaries will be respected.

Kelley Shields  22:03  

Oh, I’m so glad you said that. And one thing I want to tack on to that that doesn’t even have to only be in an abusive situation is that when you’re in even situation, approximating that, sometimes we just internalize so much. And I know I have felt and have so many clients who said the same thing, which is like, well, maybe I’m lazy, or I guess I just don’t like work. And that’s not true. I haven’t run into that with anybody. And actually, I think that most of us actually do like working. Um, but there are a lot of situations, whether it’s because they’re a bad fit, or because all this crap is being imposed on us externally. And we’re being told that we’re wrong. Because we want something approximating normal. It’s just, it can just get really internalized. And that can also be a messy thing, where you’re where to work through where suddenly your identity becomes like, I guess I’m lazy, or I guess I don’t like work, instead of the problem actually being No, this job, there’s a problem outside of you. And the solution is finding something that is a good situation for you.

Lisa Lewis Miller  23:17  

Yeah, and if you’re listening to this, and thinking like, well, I, I, maybe I am lazy, maybe I’m being too hard on myself, I don’t know, the very first exercise we would encourage you to do is look at your history and look at your track record. Has this been a theme for you through school, even when you were a kid through undergrad through grad school through any of your other professional experiences, if it has shown up for you in multiple different places that you’ve gotten feedback that you are a certain way, or you’re doing something a certain way, that might warrant a little bit of a deeper dig, right, deeper exploration, deeper understanding of what’s going on. But for most top performers, most strong employees, even if you’re just having one incident in a vacuum, it can feel like it is an indictment of your character and your entire being. So don’t blow one situation or one dynamic or one toxic work environment into a bigger story about who you are, what you’re capable of, and how you want to contribute and serve in your work, then it is anchor yourself in the bigger picture story of what’s been going on in your work, who you have been how you’ve showed up throughout your life, to see how much validity and weight this particular situation ought to have, in your sense of self identity and and mapping out what could be next for you.

Kelley Shields  24:40  

Oh, thank you for pointing that out.

Lisa Lewis Miller  24:42  

Yeah, well, and Kelley, I want to come back to something else that we’ve been talking about a little bit at the beginning today, which is about family and cultural expectations. Because when we talk about people really wrestling with shame or guilt or all the emotional baggage that can come with giving your have permission to make a change. Sometimes it’s not sourced from your work, sometimes it’s not sourced from, you know, your employer and the people who you talk with, at networking, happy hours. Sometimes it’s sourced from something much, much more intimate, and in that way, kind of vulnerable and foundational, your family, or the cultural expectations that your family is perpetuating or parenting.

Kelley Shields  25:28  

I mean, this is really big for a lot of people. And it shows up in a lot of different ways that has, they’re really infinite varieties of things that our parents who are just people went through, and the baggage that they themselves have that they’re bringing in and bringing into their parenting. But so many people have been pushed by their parents to go into a good, safe, financially stable career, some variation on that language, not to pursue something that they were really excited about and told, oh, you can’t make a living doing that, um, lots of things that are maybe based on. It can be based on lots of things, but I’ve definitely seen it based on you know, a parent who grew up struggling financially, and you know, who has swung to an extreme, because they don’t want their child to ever go through that. And it’s intended out of love, and wanting their child to be safe, but the results can be, really. And someone who is an adult, of course, they’re feeling like, oh, my goodness, I’m gonna disappoint my parents so much, I’m not in if I leave either this prestigious job, or just respectable job that they found acceptable, or my parents sacrificed so hard, so that I could go to college and get into this profession where I can support myself. There’s so many variations, I have seen on this where somebody felt like, oh, my goodness, in order to go do work that I actually find fulfilling and meaningful, and I really enjoy, and like it lights me up, and I want to do this, they feel like, Oh, I am going to have to disappoint my parents, or I’m not going to be living up to the standard that my culture has. And that’s just a really hard and painful thing to feel.

Lisa Lewis Miller  27:30  

Well, and Kelley. An interesting sort of riff on that, too, is and this is something that I wrote about in my book, because it was actually some feedback that I got from a beta reader, which is that sometimes like, there are some really beautiful expectations and reputations that we get in our families that can sometimes become shackles in adulthood. Like, if you were always the example from the book is like being grandma’s little helper. Right, always being helpful always being there always being willing to pitch in. And that sort of always volunteering, always going above and beyond always giving modality now is not serving this person in the professional world in the ways that they want it to. It’s creating leaky boundaries, it’s creating a sense of being taken for granted and walked all over. And so even things that can be really beautiful in one context can sometimes have have a shadow side that comes out in our work. And that I wanted to share two more stories about family expectations and cultural expectations. And an interesting family expectation that I came across is somebody whose family would have been like a little bit Loki mortified if the person had gone into being a lawyer, being a doctor, being an engineer being anything like that, because the family was pretty, they had some sort of interesting anti capitalistic biases. And so they saw the only path forward professionally, that had any merit. were being a teacher and educator in some way, working at a nonprofit, or working for government. And they were huge proponents of advanced degrees, master’s level, you know, doctorate level, and the person who I was speaking with was in a real estate. And you don’t need a masters or a PhD, to be good at real estate. And arguably, those degrees aren’t going to give you anything other than more student loan debt and that particular area of work anyways. But he felt really constrained, really concerned and really confused by trying to figure out how do I live up to these expectations from my family, they’re so out of alignment and so out of whack with where I am right now, and anywhere that I’d want to go professionally. So that can also be a way in which our family stories can come to life in our own work and create shame and guilt. But on the cultural side, I see fascinating stuff with this We are so lucky to get to work with incredibly diverse clients here at Career Clarity Show. And folks come with all sorts of interesting, funky, weird, wild baggage that comes from a cultural perspective, that may not necessarily be serving that individual or even their family in this moment, but has deep historic roots. So for example, one thing that I love is that, you know, if you’ve been listening to us Career Clarity Show, you probably get the sense that we are American, not just from our accents, but because we’re enthusiastic. And we show a lot of excitement about things. We’re very achievement oriented or very go getter. And you know, even just looking at Europeans, the culture there around work, and achievement is so so much different. You know, there’s this Eddie Izzard stand up skit where he talks about, you just have to tone it down a bit. Like, whoa, bring your aspirations down a little bit, hold on, bring it back, bring it back, you know, and that’s probably true of most of Europe, writ large, but country, by country culture, by culture, you’re going to see variations, right, your Italians and your Spanish are going to be much more sort of fiery, and passionate and lively. Whereas your French are going to be much more subdued and chill. So every single place has different kinds of cultural norms and expectations that come with them. And I think, getting to watch the different clients that we’ve worked with even looking at sort of Southeast Asia, and what kinds of cultural norms come from families that are rooted in those countries versus more central Asia or more. Western Asia, can be wildly different in fascinating, interesting ways, that are worth a look at to see how much those cultural expectations are serving you, and how much they might be creating perceptions and limitations about what’s possible for you and your happiness and your joy. 

Kelley Shields  32:00  

Yeah, I think Iagree. I love that about career clarity and the clientele that we get to work with. And that’s a really big thing that, you know, we take seriously because we’re also not knocking anyone’s cultural heritage, or people don’t what people typically don’t want to walk away from their culture and the history and like, that’s a big part of who they are. And we’re not asking anyone to do that. And we wouldn’t ever ask them to. But if someone’s coming to us, if someone’s struggling, it is worth a look at when it is worth a look. To see, wait a second, what perceived limitations are you putting on yourself? What limitations are you seeing that might be rooted in? You know, cultural expectations? And where can we find some wiggle room for you, where we’re not asking you to throw everything away, but getting you what you need so that you can thrive and be happy?

Lisa Lewis Miller  32:59  

Absolutely. I love that. So, Kelley, let me ask you this. So let’s imagine somebody’s been listening to our conversation today. And they’ve been thinking, Oh, my gosh, I had no idea that I’m carrying these layers of expectation, judgment, shame, etc. that come from the cachet that comes with my job title, that come from the feedback that I’m getting from other people within my organization about the things that I have as expectations or needs from work. I’m carrying layers from my family and my upbringing. And I’m even carrying a cultural layer that I may not have really put my finger on and the function that that cultural layer was playing in my life, until now. And then thinking to myself, wow, okay, I realize I’ve got some work to do. I’ve got some layers of stuff to dig through here. What kind of advice would you give somebody who’s thinking, I don’t really want to carry around all of these layers and all this stress and all this baggage into my next move. And my next move and my next move?

Kelley Shields  34:03  

I’m, oh, first of all, if you are feeling that, I just want to give you a hug through whatever device you’re listening to this podcast on. And the first thing I would say is just kind of seeing it. It’s huge. And I would want you to celebrate that well that you’ve seen it and actively celebrate it. I celebrate that with you because it’s there whether or not you recognize it. So awareness is huge. Second, I would say have to do your best to have some compassion on yourself. And realize this isn’t about this isn’t something that’s unique to you. This is something that most people feel and experience. It’s incredibly common. And even just realizing, oh wait, this is a normal experience, I think can be really helpful and following that up with You know, how would you talk to a friend who came to you and, you know, was expressing all this shame that you from different places that you realize you’re carrying, and try talking to yourself internally that way, try treating yourself the same way that you would treat a really good friend. And having that kind of kindness and compassion towards yourself. That’s kind of the key. That’s kind of one of the keys. I also think going to somebody external can be helpful, I do think you need to be careful about who you go to. Because we all have, you know, everyone has their own baggage. And if you go to a family member, and you’re talking about family or cultural issues, then they may feel defensive. And you’re going to be running into potentially what somebody else’s baggage on this issue is and your choices, they’ve made things they’ve internalized, so but if you have a trusted friend, who you know is in a good headspace on these kind of issues, or you know, isn’t the kind of headspace you’d like to be in on these issues that can be a good person, or finding a professional of some kind to talk to you. I love working with clients on things like this. It’s really deep emotional work. And it’s really awesome to see how much freedom and lightness and possibility for the future clients gain through doing this. So I think there are all sorts of options. Yeah,

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:34  

I think that one of the biggest things that you said there that I just want to underline is that shame isn’t doesn’t have to be permanent. It, it can change your relationship to it can change, you can reframe the pieces that are contributing to the feeling, you can find a new and different way to think about things and look at look at things. I think your advice about finding somebody who is open and open minded, and can hold a lot of space for you, and who also can champion your possibilities is really important. So if there’s no other takeaway that you take out of today’s episode, then this, think about somebody in your life who can serve that function with you who would be delighted to do so. It might be a friend, it might be a family member, it could be a former teacher or professor, it could be a therapist, it could be a coach. But if you don’t have somebody in your life, who can help you process the layers of stuff around how you feel about the role or the title that you’re leaving, and the direction that you want to go. And any of the emotional friction, or the the cache friction, shall we say that comes with making that transition. If you seek out help with dealing with that, it’s going to make the transition feel so much better. And it’s going to happen more efficiently and effectively. It’s not to say you can’t do it on your own. But oftentimes that can be the the long and very uphill road in trying to do a lot of self coaching or self reframing around this to make the kind of headway and progress that you want.

Kelley Shields  38:14  

Yeah, and I’m a big fan of self coaching on or, you know, even just reflecting and looking at and looking internally, but um, this is something that, especially when we’re talking about Shame, shame is something that can’t exist outside of darkness, basically. So I have a therapist once tell me that, you know, with shame, what we want to do is shine a light on it. And that doesn’t mean you have to get up and announce to the entire world on a national audience, something that is causing you shame. But finding a trustworthy person, a safe person to talk to and open up to is incredibly helpful. And that’s one of the things that ends up shining that light that just ends up dissipating that shame.

Lisa Lewis Miller  39:03  

I love that. And I think a phrase that you’ll probably appreciate is, you know, watch what you make it mean about yourself. Right? Watch what you are making your transition mean that has bigger shockwaves than what it is. Because remember, jobs are neutral work is neutral. It’s the thoughts that we have about them and the thoughts that we assume other people are having or the thoughts that we sort of pick up from other people’s projections that then create the emotional reactions about it. So watch what you make it mean that you’re making a transition because there may be a way to make it feel much more lovely and empowering or even just much more neutral. And it seems on its face. That Kelley, thank you so much for coming on the Career Clarity Show today. It has been a delight as always to have you share your thoughts perspective, client stories and advice about what to do if somebody is bumping up against the shame wall.

Kelley Shields  40:00  

Thank you for having me, Lisa. Great to be here and talk with you on this topic.

Lisa Lewis Miller  40:11  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes, your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally finds the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.

 

About the Author Lisa Lewis

Lisa is a career change coach helping individuals feeling stuck to find work that fits. She helps people clarify who they are, what they want most, and what a great job for them looks like so they can make their transition as easily as possible. Lisa completed coaching training in Jenny Blake’s Pivot Method, Danielle LaPorte’s Fire Starter Sessions, Kate Swoboda's Courageous Living Coaching Certification, and the World Coaches Institute. In addition to that, she apprenticed with the top career coaches in the country so she can do the best possible work with — and for — you. She's helped more than 500 individuals move into more fulfilling, yummy careers and would be honored to get to serve you next!

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