133: The Career Leap with Misha Rubin

Today on the Career Clarity Show I’m excited to invite Misha Rubin. Misha is a fellow career expert focusing on fulfillment, finding a path that fits, and what can make it so difficult. If you are interested in a very holistic approach, spanning many different topics that come into questions around career changes, this episode is for you. 

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

Show Notes:

• Misha Rubin
• The Career Leap
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04   

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Hello, and welcome back to the Career Clarity Show. I’m your host, Lisa Miller. And I’m delighted that you are with us today. On today’s episode of the podcast, we are talking all things career change, it is a very meaty in the substance of all the different things that come up for us on the Career Clarity Show kind of conversation today, I’ll be speaking to a fellow career expert about fulfillment, finding a path that fits what can make it so difficult, all the different pieces of that. So it’s a very holistic, spanning a lot of the different topics that come into questions around career is the kind of episode of the kind of conversation you’re interested in today. Today’s episode will definitely be for you. My guest on today’s episode is Misha Rubin. Misha is a career educator, entrepreneur and speaker. Until recently, he was a partner at a big four management consulting firm where he spent 15 years, he managed over $100 million worth of projects, advise a countless number of clients and guided hundreds of careers. His corporate experience personal quest for meaning and fulfillment and rigorous study birth, the career leap method, a pragmatic, elevating and actionable process designed for people to obtain clarity about their next career moves. Apart from providing career transformational programs to individuals and groups. Misha is also a musician, and adoptive parent of three and a board member of worldwide orphans. Misha, welcome to the Career Clarity Show.

Misha Rubin  2:02  

Thank you, Lisa, it’s truly my pleasure to be here with you.

Lisa Lewis Miller  2:07  

I feel like the place we’ve got to start our conversation is, until recently you are a partner at a big four management firm. So talk to me about what your career has looked like and how you’ve gotten to where you are today.

Misha Rubin  2:20  

Right? It’s it’s a fun journey. So when I started my career, I think I started with changing jobs every two years. Because I kept looking for something I just didn’t have words for it. And I knew that every job I had wasn’t it. And then I also try taking a year off to discover my passion. So I’ve done that I had a great time, didn’t discover the passion. And then I thought let me try actually stay with one company for a long time. And so I worked in big for a management consulting firm, for I was there for 15 years. And even when I became a partner, I still had this feeling that I’m wasting my life like I’m not doing something important that I’m here to do. And that was to this particular moment. And I remember this moment very vividly because I was sitting in a meeting, where we’re creating a new service offering to our clients, which are for the most part of large banks. And there was this like a moment of choice for me. And at that time, I was, you know, a partner for five years, I was more successful than I could ever imagine to be as an immigrant coming to the United States. So I was in a really great place. And I was a competent, unfulfilled professional, you know, I was, you know, educated enough, good enough at what I do successful enough and not fulfilled at my job. So as I was sitting in that meeting, and people were talking, I have heard my inner voice telling me, this is not aligned with who you are. And that was truly like a moment of choice for me. And I knew that either I will continue living this life with this feeling that I’m wasting my life away that I you know, like that I’m giving up my soul that I’m just not doing something like being dead inside. Or I will take you know, a massive risk. And at that time, you know, I you know, I’m a breadwinner. I have three small children. And I didn’t have clarity about what I wanted to do. But I knew that that was the thing that I had to do. And what I didn’t know that at that time that in six months from that moment, I would actually develop the career lead method, you know that I will start teaching people about a career like I feel like the field of career education is really missing in our society. And that I will be here on this podcast sharing this information with you. So here we are.

Lisa Lewis Miller  4:55  

Excellent. Well talk to me about that decision point moment of fear This inner voice telling you this is not what you were meant to be doing. You don’t want to just sit here and watch your your soul shrivel up and die. And making the leap. Because having the clarity that you don’t want to be doing something versus actually changing your life and changing your behaviors and, and leaving everything that you had known, those two typically have a pretty big emotional canyon between them and a planning Canyon. So talk to me about what that was like.

Misha Rubin  5:33  

It was very intense it was. That’s why I call it a moment of choice and a moment of truth. Also, I just knew I couldn’t go back. I it was it was it wasn’t even fully rational. You know, I just knew because yeah, I knew for a long time that I it was wasn’t fulfilled, you know that I wasn’t doing it. That wasn’t news for me. Maybe, you know, a few months before that my dad passed away. And there was something you know, when you lose your both parents at that time that I don’t know that maybe there’s some realignment that happened with me. And I just really connected to my own integrity. I don’t know who exactly what it was, it was really that moment. I’m still looking back and thinking, My God, what what was I thinking, right. But at the same time, it was also not a surprise, because I was going towards that moment. For a long time. You know, I did a lot of study with many masters with many teachers, or a lot of books, I did a lot of problems, I did a lot of self reflection. So it wasn’t like also like, Oh, my God, it also didn’t come out of nowhere. So there is this paradox to these moments where, you know, there is a build up, but then there is a moment. But then at the end of the day, the reason that I call it the moment of choice where you just make a choice, you know, and one thing that I realized maybe a little bit later is that I think one of the reasons it’s so hard to make this choice is that people don’t have a clear idea. So what do I do next. And this is where I think that we have this void in the society, we are taught gazillion things, you know, lifetime. But nobody teaches us how to choose our careers, how to build our career paths. And this is why this design the career lead method, so that people actually, even before their moment of choice, they quit their jobs or do their things, then they can actually plan and discover and be very strategic and thoughtful about and that’s why I designed this method. And that’s why I’m doing what I do the work that I do.

Lisa Lewis Miller  7:40  

So you had your moment of choice and your moment of truth. What happened next for you.

Misha Rubin  7:45  

So I, I, you know, I knew that I wanted to do something in the field of personal development and education. So I had that, that was like an interest of me. And I started, you know, one company, and then it’ll lead to another company like, these different brands, where I worked with other teachers, I was, I was really exploring. And then I came up with a career leap idea. And then I was like, so it was all kind of related, but it was kind of everything was leading me there. But it also wasn’t like on the top of my head, this is what I should be doing. And then once I, I remember it was in July, it was morning, and I will cop and suddenly I had the answer, how come I wasn’t fulfilled. Like I had language for it. I could explain it to others. And that was the beginning of the career lead method. And at that point, I just, which is which is an example of how easy it is. I’m not saying how easy it is to start a business nowadays. I’m not saying it’s easy to run it. But the barriers to starting the business and minimal right. So I created a webpage I posted on Facebook and LinkedIn and get my first three students. And then everything else is really one thing enrolled after another Mike methods been evolving, developing. I’ve been running longer, deeper programs with more people, I’m developing my digital product. So it’s all kind of snowballing and happening.

Lisa Lewis Miller  9:12  

So when you decided, Okay, I’m going to try to start a business when you are feeling unfulfilled. And at that moment of truth. Did you quit your job immediately? Are you building it as a side hustle?

Misha Rubin  9:22  

Well, it was a little bit happening in parallel. I was planning my exit. And I started working on some ideas in parallel. But the overlap was fair, like a few months, and then there was a moment that I was leaving.

Lisa Lewis Miller  9:37  

And when you had the moment that you were leaving, had you settled on a career leap being the idea that you were going to build out next

Misha Rubin  9:43  

no at that time that that was before I had that idea. But frankly, if I didn’t leave I wouldn’t have the space and time to to move forward also because my job was also very involved and and then also the way You know, it’s also a process of separating from large firms. So it was, you know, it was a journey for me also to do that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  10:08  

So knowing that you were highlighting in your story that you were the breadwinner? How did you do that? What was your strategy? And what were the tactics that you use to be able to leave your job on a business that you ultimately ended up not deciding to continue on with, and then have the time and the financial runway to play with the idea of the career leap and get it to a point where it could start to scale?

Misha Rubin  10:31  

Right? Well, so part of my because, again, it wasn’t a complete surprise, it wasn’t surprising, it wasn’t surprised, that moment of choice. So at that moment, I, I, you know, I was very strategic in saving some money. I was also very strategic, and now on our financial plan, and that’s one of the things that I teach my students, as soon as you know, we explore all type of leaps, you know, we build what I call the Korea leap map, with a lot of ideas before my students pick their leaps, right. And part of it is the preparation and preparation that you need to be very grounded. You know, especially if you have family, if you have other humans, depending on you, in how you do that, that you have a plan. If you can tolerate, you know, if you’re going to start at a lower salary, for instance, you know, the delete that you want to make, maybe over time, you will get there, but you’re changing industry, it could happen, it doesn’t necessarily need to happen. Or if you decide to start a business, you need to plan how long can you survive without income, or maybe you actually need to make some investments. So I think it’s all part of planning and strategic thinking here. But I think if if people really get out of just fear and being in their heads, explaining why not, and believing in their doubts and everything, but actually start taking action steps in terms of this is what I want to do, this is what to take, this is what I can do, what I can do actually start being very pragmatic about their direction, then it’s a lot of things are possible.

Lisa Lewis Miller  12:08  

Well, coming back to the point that you just made about that the people who you are invested in partner, members of your family, part of your support crew, what are some of the most important things to tell those people? And what are some of the biggest objections or worries that you tend to see come up either from your own experience or from what you’ve seen with your students?

Misha Rubin  12:32  

Right, you know, like my, one of my favorite examples, I work with this really brilliant woman who help her husband to go through medical school, then, you know, she gave birth to two kids, and she had to make a twist in her own career, to be able to accommodate, you know, the kids and, and raising, you know, taking care of the family. And she helped her husband to start the practice. So when she created her own lead, I asked her, did you have a conversation with your husband? And she’s like, well, you know, I handed it to him, but he’s not the type of person that would understand what I want to do. So that was like a really a red flag. And I said, well, first of all, you have no idea what type of person he is. Second of all, if you really want to go through with your lead, there are these conversations need to be had. So she got her assignment. To have these conversations, she came back to me said, Oh, my God, my husband, as it turned out to be very supportive. So suddenly, I was inside of their marriage. So she talked about important things in life, you know, well, important things that’s happening with you about your job, suddenly, it will deepen your relationship. So my program actually is designed to deepen your relationship with your significant others.

Lisa Lewis Miller  13:47  

And what are some of the qualities that can help make that conversation be a catalyst for deepening rather than be a catalyst for fear or uncertainty or stress?

Misha Rubin  13:59  

Right, so I think the question is, this is what I tell my students is use is your partner in life? Are they be your biggest supporters? So that’s the first question. So if the question is Yes, awesome. You have, then you actually have you can go through with the elite in the question is no, then I would say you have work to do. Right? And that work might not be just one conversation that work might be a number of conversation, that you need to be really in the source of the matter of be responsible that only you can create that shift there’s nobody else will create it for you. That you got to gotta continue having this conversation. Those conversations should be very authentic, like what it is you really want to do in life. What it is where you want to make a difference. What would it mean for your family, you know, I one of the my premises of the work that I do is if you are a parent, and you have kids or if you are just A member of a community. Like kids specifically, they don’t listen to what we tell them, they actually inherit the blueprint of our life. So if you’re not living a great life, that’s what you kids inheriting. And if you are doing the work that’s aligned with your values, if you’re doing great things that you’re proud of, then it will impact your well being it will impact your relationships, it will impact your community. So it’s all of it is interrelated.

Lisa Lewis Miller  15:30  

One of the things that can be really challenging when somebody is going through this season of knowing that they don’t want to keep doing what they have been doing, but aren’t quite sure what to dive into next is this fear of I don’t know how to figure it out. I don’t know how to decide I don’t know how to choose the thing that’s going to be right for me. Right. And you know, what I’ve seen with the hundreds of folks that we’ve supported here at Career Clarity Show is that it can be really challenging to go to your partner, go to family, go to people in your life, and share that you want to make a change before you have a strong hypothesis of what you want to make a change to. How do you help support people with getting clear on the transition and what they’d like to try?

Misha Rubin  16:20  

Right? So first of all, I think if you want to do something else, and you don’t know what it is, it’s a great conversation to be had with your significant others. And it’s okay not to now. But that’s the thing, when if you withhold these conversation, that suddenly, when you are to have a real conversation about change, then they’re all the surprises. So if you don’t know what to do, and you want to do something else, it’s great. And your significant others could be a great inspiration or resource of actually, of your discovery. What I developed is the method. So I think fundamentally, knowing what to do in life is a function of knowing who you are. So and knowing who you are, is really about creating a criteria. So the most common way people get employment nowadays, right? You, you update your resume with your skills and experience. That’s what everybody teaches you, you go like on LinkedIn, you find a posting, you submit your job. Now, if that method, and that haven’t brought you meaning and fulfillment, it probably not going to if you keep repeating it, in fact, you probably got the job that you don’t like through that method through updating your resume and looking at the posting and applying for it. Now I lost the train on my thoughts for a second. Now it also if you think about how many people you know, that have great skills and great experiences, and can’t stand their jobs, right. So that’s one trap, I call it skills and experience trap. And the second trap, I call it an opportunity trap. And the opportunity trap comes when a boss or a recruiter or somebody is calling you say hey, there is a great opportunity, you’ll make more money, or you’ll have more responsibilities or great experiences or more flexibility, or you will be closer to your home or whatever it is some more of something that you want. And if you did a few jumps like that, you might end up in the place like, what am I even doing here I never really wanted it is because while opportunities are great unless you curate them, you know, they might take you on the roads, you don’t want to be in places where you don’t want you don’t want to go. So the criteria is the fundamental, one of the fundamental things that I teach my students is how to develop unique career criteria. And then if you have criteria, then you actually have something to measure, then you will know exactly why you’re not happy with your current job. And then you will have a very good guiding principles how to explore different industries problems that are being solved how to even when you interview with an organization to see whether they align with you with your team. So if you have a criteria, then everything becomes much clearer and much simpler. So in terms of the criteria, the way I would want to think that if you could imagine, if you work in an organization and you’re solving the problem that’s aligned with your values, if you do the type of work that builds on your strengths, if you are your work is work setup is such that it’s aligned with your motivation mechanism, and your team and customer interaction aligned with your interpersonal profile. Right if you if you really think about that, and what’s possible if there is this alignment, there is a natural enthusiasm, commitment to results or growth in peak performance. So I call it your best game zone. Right. So and the question is how and that’s you know, when people wondering, okay, how I’m not making more money or how come I’m not getting promoted? Or how come I’m not fulfilled? Well, because there is some type of misalignment. Because if you were in your best game zone, you would be in demand, you know, people like, can have more of this, right. So the way I work with my students is to develop their career unique career criteria. So we develop their career values, which are responsible for meaning and fulfillment, your strengths is the most important ingredient for success. Your motivation mechanism is actually related to your sense of accomplishment, and your interpersonal profile for your social wellbeing. So once you clear about what these things are, then you can actually think about what can I do in this space. But if you end up in the space, this is where your peak performance is available. This is where your financial potential can start unraveling. This is where you can feel fulfilled, this is where you can do great things. And my mission in the world is that I fill the world with empowered, impactful humans so that they got to believing in this their best game zone to produce these incredible results.

Lisa Lewis Miller  21:13  

Excellent. Well, it feels like those four elements of your criteria portfolio make a lot of sense that are very aligned with probably what listeners have gotten used to hearing here on the Career Clarity Show with our four pillars of career fulfillment. Misha, I’m curious, you talked about the strengths and experiences trap. But you also talked about strengths. Are you talking about the skills and experience trap, but you also talked about strengths as being a really critical component of your criteria and of creating your game plan? How do you draw the distinction between the type that will trap you versus the type that empower and unlock you?

Misha Rubin  21:51  

Well, to be strength is very different that skills and experience there was clearly relationship with them. So to me skills and experiences are fairly fixed. So the thing about skills and where people get tripped a little bit is that they think I don’t have the right skills, right. But in this world, you should think about skills as clothes, and clothes gets out of fashion and gets worn out. So that’s what happens with skills. Now. If you need new clothes, you go to the store. And frankly, we live at this extraordinary time, right? And what that there is unprecedented access to learning, right? That if you want to acquire new knowledge and skills, and by the way, about 85 of all skills are becoming irrelevant as we speak, just because of the nature of the society that we’re currently living. So even if you, if you, if you have comfort in your skills, you probably expect them to get out of fashion or worn out. Or if you have a concern for your skills that you don’t have, right once well, great, you got to be acquiring new skills one way or another, and you get an MBA online nowadays, you can get a certificate from an Ivy League college, just sitting on your couch, you can take courses in Coursera there’s so many different ways of learning. And the experiences, I think, that were I think experiences are much more transferable that we give them to so one thing that I give them credit to so one thing that I teach my students how to communicate in an impactful way. And and part of that impactful communication is, is when it gets to your resumes or your guests to your communication to your employers, how do you communicate your experiences in a very relevant way. But fundamentally, if you started something, or grew something, or built something or supported something, it’s very likely you can transfer transfer that experience into a different industry, or a different area. The question is, how do you communicate it in the right way? And at the same time, you should be clear about your gaps and what are the things you need to close?

Lisa Lewis Miller  24:01  

Well, coming back to the question of kind of how do you how do you help support people in differentiating between a strength and a skill? What would you say is the distinction

Misha Rubin  24:11  

so strength is a quality or an ability of how you produce results in a reliable way. So that’s where the way I look for ask people to discover their strengths is to really look where the areas where you produce the most the greatest results and what has you produced them skill to me is a thing on resume you know, like I know how to type I know how to you know podcast I know how to create a PowerPoint presentation I know how to build a house that’s but the strength I think is a is a is probably a try to make it into a bigger thing into almost like a quality of who you are.

Lisa Lewis Miller  24:56  

They will give us some examples.

Misha Rubin  24:58  

Right? So like For instance, like sales could be a strength or communication could be a strength or solving problems could be a strength, or building things could be a strength. So, to me strength has a more encompassing quality. Now, every thanks should come with evidence, as a part of evidence could be your, I usually look for evidence and results, but you could use having certain skills as an evidence for your strength.

Lisa Lewis Miller  25:30  

got it got it. So it sounds like the distinction between falling into the skills and experience trap versus using strengths to empower you. Has has something to do with thinking about these more broad categories of your strengths and looking at new places to apply them rather than the places that that you have gotten used to applying them.

Misha Rubin  25:53  

Right, I think when you’re developing your that’s my strength is just only one of the pieces of the puzzle, I usually say that where your work should be aligned with your career values, what you do should be aligned with your strengths, but where your work is way more important than what you do. So once you figure out what is your lead, then you should think about what use your strength could be there. That would be become like the second question, what type of a career I can build in this area? That the areas aligned with my values on solving the problem that’s aligned with my values? But how do I now what can I do specifically there that should be aligned with your strength, and then skills to me are important. Like, then there would be your experiences because they transferable skills to me on the lowest on the bottom of the pyramid? Because they are acquirable, they are, you know, you can you can gain new ones, the important but they are still on the lowest pyramid. And I think that the skills and experience trap comes that of that you take your skills as on the top of the pyramid and have that dictate your career choices. Versus you have your values dictate your career choices, and then you use and your strengths in deciding what you want to do. And then skills in supporting that.

Lisa Lewis Miller  27:13  

Got it? It sounds like you advocate for a pretty specific prioritization of the different pieces. What’s the new thing, those four criteria that you were talking about? What’s the prioritize order of those four? Yeah, so

Misha Rubin  27:25  

it’s all comes in the method, right? You know, first you develop your unique career criteria. Once you have that unique career criteria, then you can create, you can design ideas, and come up with ideas of where and what you could be doing. I call it the career leap, map. So you developing a map of all the possibilities. And then from there, you choose your Leap. And then from you know, once you evaluating your Leap, you should be looking at your skills and experiences, and to see what gaps you might be having. So you can close them. But to me, that’s kind of the order that skills and experience come into, into serious consideration a little bit later.

Lisa Lewis Miller  28:04  

Got it? Okay, we’ll talk to me about I know you mentioned an interpersonal element to some of the things that you need to define that will help set you up for feeling fulfilled in your work. Talk to me a little bit more about what that means and what someone should be thinking about and asking themselves to get clear on that piece.

Misha Rubin  28:21  

rate. So interpersonal profile. So I would look at, you know, some people work really well by themselves, and they know that they’re their best they’re a game is by themselves. Some people know that their best game isn’t the team. Some people know, it’s some type of a combination between them doing some work by themselves, and then they’re different variability of that. Then another criteria between internal and external, the way we operate with people within our teams are usually very, it’s different than the way we operate with our clients and customers. So there are some things to see where sometimes people are way more comfortable communicating with customers than with our teams. So then there is a way of looking into what is your internal and external. And then you also need to look at also your, you know, communication is, is for many people as like as a human need, but it’s different for different people in the extent you know, some people really thrive on communication, and some people need a little bit of that. So I think looking at all these things will create a profile. And then you can use it and say well, this job is that the or this type of a career of this type of opportunity? Is it aligned with my interpersonal profile?

Lisa Lewis Miller  29:44  

And how do you help support people in thinking through the fact finding on whether or not a job or a career will support their personal profile because it can be awfully difficult to tell those levels of nuance about an opportunity based on what you might be Seeing an online job description?

Misha Rubin  30:02  

Yeah, well, first of all, I don’t send people to look at online job descriptions. So they are used somewhat an unorthodox way. I believe that through searching online, of course, you can find a job, everybody, a lot of people fall in jobs. But I think your chances to find this meaningful and fulfilling jobs, just going through the listings online, are slim. I’m not saying it’s impossible, you know, but I’m just saying that’s, to me, not the most effective way to look for that, I actually send people, I have the whole method of pursuit of how I teach people to look for job. So I actually asked them to go and identify organizations that solving that problem that’s aligned with their career leap, and also that aligned with their, with their values, number one, so they look at those organizations, then I teach them how to approach them in a compelling way, then so because a lot of organizations don’t even post their jobs online, or they pose them as the last resort is really when they couldn’t find people through their internal network, you know, or through their relationships. And I teach people on how to communicate. So there are three principle of impactful communication is being authentic. So being being true to who you are. So all that work that we’re doing around any career criteria, your values, you know, also choosing your lead and why you choose it, and what’s you know, what’s behind that, that kind of feeds that, then you got to be relevant. And if you’re relevant, you understand what they want, and how they motivated and what they are doing and what drives them. So you got to speak to their listening. And the third one, you’re transparent, you’re transparent about your intentions about your gaps about all these things. So to answer your question, that’s my long way to answer your question. So when you are in an interview, and if you truly being authentic, relevant and transparent, the traditional form of interview is they’re interviewing you, and you’re trying to look the best you can do, you’re trying to perform the best version of you, which could potentially work for a short term outcome. But this is how you will make Miss, you might mislead them, they might mislead you, you might actually miss important things. So I’m actually transforming that paradigm of interviewing. But if you are authentic, relevant and transparent, then you’re already providing them all the information they need for them to make a choice. And if they’re looking for particular things that you don’t have them, you know, you just don’t have them, you really there is you can just be really, truly yourself authentic, relevant and respected. But then you should use time to interview them. And it’s in interviewing them, you will understand what are the true values of organization? Are the things that they put in on their website? Is that is that propagates? And how are they measuring results? How are they measuring performance, this is where you can get to understanding how their team’s work and customers work, this is the place for you to interview them and to get your own conclusion whether this is the right team or organization for you to work for. I

Lisa Lewis Miller  33:17  

love that it’s a great strategy to be using and certainly not just reserved for interviews, any sort of informational conversation with you, that you have with individuals who have worked at or are currently working in the organization can give you a lot of clarity on if there’s alignment there. Or if it only looks like there was alignment there when you were doing your initial research. But once you pop the hood and you look underneath and look inside, you see a very different picture. So I think that’s great. Well, Misha, is there one piece of advice that you would give to someone who is on the precipice of a career search or a career change, given what’s going on in the economy and the markets right now?

Misha Rubin  34:02  

Yeah, I would say there was no better time, you know, we you know, pandemic created, remote work as, as a norm. Pretty much killing all the geographical barriers, the society is transforming and businesses are transforming that creates a lot of opportunities. The it I talked about the low barrier to start your own business, and I talked about unprecedented access to learning so if you look at these factors, nobody had what we have no one no one had that. So if you think that your job is not fulfilling, you don’t think you are you know making money that you want to make or you don’t feel like you’re growing or you don’t feel like any of these things. Consider is because you this there are three things I usually say the The reasons for that. One is you your job and career are not aligned with your unique career criteria. Number two, you probably have a disempowering belief could be about your job could be about your options, and could be about the pursuit. In fact, a lot of people are stopped, because they actually don’t see all the options they actually have in reality, that’s where they stop their, you know, their discovery. And the third thing, you don’t have a plan. So these are all the things that I work with my students that you can actually really, and unpack all that. So if there was one advice that I would give, don’t wait, you know, it’s really, it’s really, there is nothing, it’s never going to get any better than this. And the what you don’t want to do is live in mediocrity. You don’t want to live in status quo and mediocrity and status quo have a quality of sucking you and so there is an effort to break away from it. And the way to break away to it is to take actions to take actions to take actions.

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:06  

Excellent. Well, Misha, thank you so much for coming on the Career Clarity Show today. For anybody who’s been listening to this and has really appreciated your perspective and point of view, where can they learn more about your work?

Misha Rubin  36:16  

Excellent. So if you want to learn more about me and my programs, which I helped multiples I work with students and I work with, from students to CEOs, right, you can go to Misha rubin.com. And if you are a professional and you listen to me, like oh my god, I just can’t wait. I’m ready to go then go to the Korea leaf.com. And then you can learn about my next program.

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:37  

Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Misha Rubin  36:41  

It’s my pleasure, Lisa.

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:49  

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