Episode 97: Networking and Relationship Building with Rebecca Leder

Welcome to The Career Clarity Show, where we help you find a lucrative, soulful, and joyful career path for you!

Today on the Career Clarity Show, we are going to be talking about something that can be uncomfortable, that strikes fear into the hearts of introverts like me – Networking. Relationship building is incredibly important and necessary to be able to make a career transition successfully and is one of the surest pathways to success in finding a new role

I’m so excited for today’s guest to talk about how strategic relationship building can be joyful, ease-filled, and built on a foundation of helping people and being friendly. If you are the sort of person who has networking anxiety, you’re going to love Rebecca Leder and her top tips for networking.

Want to learn more about our strategic framework for successful career change? Download The Roadmap to Career Fulfillment ebook right here!

SHOW NOTES:

• KNOCK: How to Open Doors and Build Career Relationships that Matter
• The Knock Method
• Instagram: @theknockmethod
• Roadmap to a Fulfilling Career eBook

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Transcript:

Lisa Lewis Miller  0:04  

Welcome to the Career Clarity Show. If you want to create a career path you’ll love, you’re in the right place. I’m Lisa Lewis Miller, career change coach, published author and your host, and each week, we’ll bring you personal transformation stories, advice and insights from experts about how you can find a more fulfilling, soulful and joyful career. Welcome back to the Career Clarity Show everyone. I am Lisa Miller, and I am delighted to have you with us today. On today’s episode of the Career Clarity Show, we are going to be talking about something that is uncomfortable, something that people get squeamish about, and something that is incredibly important and necessary to be able to make a career transition successfully. It is something that strikes fear into the hearts of introverts like me, and is also one of the surest pathways to success in finding a new role, especially if you are changing into a new industry or a new organization or a new geography. Today, on the podcast, we are talking about networking, and relationship building. Now, I know that for a lot of folks, when you think about networking, the first image that it evokes, in your mind is this idea of this smoky bar underground that has no windows and the floor is a little bit sticky. And everybody’s in their power suits and ties. And everybody’s thrusting their hands at you for handshakes in this sort of like post or pre Corona world and saying, so what do you do and handing out their business cards. And when you think about networking, and relationship building through that lens, it is no wonder that people don’t really want to do it. But I’m so excited for today’s guest to come on the podcast to talk about how strategic relationship building can be joyful, it can be ease filled, and it can be all built on a foundation of helping people and being friendly, which is so exciting. So if you are the sort of person who has had a little bit of networking anxiety, or you felt lost and haven’t even known how to get started or how to create value for others, or you just feel like you just don’t want to, you’re finding yourself feeling resistant, you’re finding yourself feeling nervous or scared, to be visible, and to be vulnerable with other people sharing what you’re going through. Today’s episode of the podcast is specifically for you. I’m so excited for today’s guest on the podcast, Rebecca Leder. Rebecca is a speaker writer connector, a senior marketing manager at Salesforce and the founder of an award winning blog, the Rebecca foundations, and a marketing consulting company for small businesses, startups and nonprofits, where she was named a rising star finalist in the Austin Business Journal women of influence awards. Rebecca has shared her career development, personal branding and marketing insights for companies, classrooms and conferences large and small. over her decade plus career, Rebecca has navigated several career changes, interview cycles and connected with thought leaders unique using a methodology she authored five steps to building giving relationships, the knock method today it has been shared in classrooms and workshops with 250 plus professionals and students who are putting the steps into practice as they build their careers. And her brand new book, knock how to open doors and build career relationships that matter. Just came out last month in March 2021. Rebecca, welcome to the Career Clarity Show.

Rebecca Leder  3:47  

Yay, I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Lisa.

Lisa Lewis Miller  3:51  

Well, I’m delighted to have you on today because building relationships that are giving based and nurturing, and that feel good nourishing is just as much a science as it is an art. And it’s something that not everybody thinks about in their careers and lives. And I’m wondering if for our conversation today, you could start us back at the beginning of your own career, knowing that you have been through some changes and transitions of your own to share about what your transitions have looked like and why relationships became such a big focus area for you.

Rebecca Leder  4:31  

I would love to do that. And it takes me way back. I’m thinking back in my mind about what it was like when I was deciding where to go to college, and what to study. And I knew that I wanted to be in business and marketing I was kind of always really into catchy jingles and branding and commercials and marketing just sort of felt like a fit for me. It’s also a perfect combination of business and creative and I would say I’m sort of half and half I’ve got the left brain and the right brain I chose to go to the University of Texas at Austin hook em horns. And there was a decision point because the advertising program was in the communication school, and the marketing program was in the business school. And they’re very similar. And so it was, it was kind of a, you know, an intentional decision that I decided to go with the business school and study marketing at McComb School of Business, and have the business foundation and also zero in on the marketing side of business. And so that was the first sort of decision point that I made. So there was that, sort of the the management side of it, the finance side of it, the operational side of marketing. It wasn’t only design or only the creative side, it really had that balance. So that was really the first decision that I made. And I was fortunate to seek different kinds of internships in college, one of which my dear friend, Samantha connected me with a publisher, she was working with them, she was a writing an English major and a writer. And she said, Hey, we’re looking for interns, marketing interns at our publishers, would you be open to, you know, a chat, and I jumped at the opportunity. Unfortunately, that ended up being my publisher for the book that I just released. So that came full circle, which is the door that was opened 15 years ago. And it was really great to reopen that door, and discuss what a partnership would look like. And it actually helps make my dream a reality. So I will also say that my first job out of college came from an internship, that was the result of a classmate who referred me to a company he had interned with. So I very early on could see the power of connections. And he wasn’t necessarily a dear friend, but he was someone that we had, you know, group projects together. So we knew each other on, you know, a little bit of a deeper level than just just a classmate I would see across the room. And I was very grateful to him for that opportunity. It was an internship that then turned into my full time job, which was@texas.gov, the official state website of Texas. So government marketing was a really interesting spin on marketing that I was necessarily trained to do. It also wasn’t necessarily the most glamorous or the most creative form of marketing. And it was also before the social media. Boom, really. So I will say, while I was there, I started to feel like I wanted to flex that creative muscle more. And I had been introduced to some local bloggers and thought, hey, maybe this is something I could explore. And it was really just for me at the time, I didn’t have any big goals. But I started the blog, the recommendations, all about entertaining, I love bringing people together around the dinner table at work in looking educational workshops for professional development, and introducing people really. And so that’s really where I brought a huge community together about entertaining. So it was about entertaining in Austin, Texas. So that included local restaurants, local shops, local artists, local musicians. And that’s really where a lot of my creative side took over my entrepreneurial side. So I’m going to pause there to see if you have any questions. But this is sort of taking you way back to the beginning of my my career. And it’s not necessarily a ladder, it’s more of a jungle gym, as one of my former managers says, so I’ll pause there.

Lisa Lewis Miller  8:36  

I love that well. And it’s cool to be able to do this retrospective look at your career and see the linkages and the connection points and things coming full circle. And I all sort of like do an aside here to say that, you know, as the economy evolves, it feels like University undergrad experiences are really having their value and their necessity and their importance continue to change and shift. But one of the most powerful things that you can do in community with other young professionals is build relationships. It’s so cool to hear that so much of the early success and the early opportunities that were were created and the doors that were open in your life were due to connections, friendships, having a classmate knowing somebody who knows somebody. And it really highlights the value of relationships, even if they go a little bit further back in your career and in your life. But I love that you allowed yourself to be creative and playful, and try out the world of media and publishing and try out the world of marketing for government and let yourself have this passion project and this fun project of curating all of the coolest experiences in your city. So it sounds like you experienced a lot of freedom and Creativity and, and playfulness in the types of things that you were pursuing, especially at that early stage in your career.

Rebecca Leder  10:07  

Thank you, I’ve never really thought of it that way. And I think it’s just because I seek out those opportunities. And those experiences that make me feel fulfilled, make me feel creative, make me feel good and positive. And, you know, really, it is a creative outlet. And I was able to find ways to intersect the two. So while@texas.gov, I had the privilege of building the first creating the first social media policies for the state of Texas, essentially. So I was on a task force, and I was the young one, it was you saying, you know, like, don’t be afraid to tweet from our, you know, governor’s office, and they were like, I don’t know, we need some policy around that. And, you know, there were, there was some apprehension, because this was brand new. I mean, it was you didn’t have to pay to play, you could post whatever you wanted business pages were kind of new government pages, were kind of new on Facebook. And, of course, I wasn’t, you know, sporadic about it. But I there was methodology, and I had to kind of instill that confidence that we can be informative, this is a great way to deliver informative neutral information that people need to know about renewing their nursing licenses, or how to get their, you know, driver’s license, and it doesn’t have to be political, it can simply be a channel for getting, you know, disseminating information. So I had the privilege of bringing my two worlds together, while I was writing my blog, after hours, and before work and checking my stats at lunchtime, right? I could bring that together and actually bring it to the company and say, hey, I want to raise my hand and be one of the first to do this for our, for our organization and for this industry. So I think I do tend to seek out those ways that I can bring my strength to whatever opportunity I have. So you don’t necessarily ask the question. But one, one thing that I’ve learned is sort of, you know, shaping your role. So wherever I am, I’ve always been able to unfortunate, but also sought out those opportunities to shape my role and go beyond the job description. Of course, I get the, you know, the basics done and the minimum qualifications, but then also mentioned to my managers, or to my teammates, you know, oh, by the way, also, I have some experience writing blog posts, maybe we can, you know, share the work that our team is doing internally or with our customers. So I do you think it’s playful and flexible a bit, there’s definitely structure to it and making sure that those minimum requirements are met. And then what else can I add? What else can I bring to the table that is going to, you know, just add more value?

Lisa Lewis Miller  12:39  

Amazing. Well, tell me more about relationships, and how they’ve led you to where you are today and what you do today?

Rebecca Leder  12:47  

Yes, wow. So, um, I owe a lot of my success to the relationships in my life, whether it’s from my family and friends who are wildly supportive, and answer my late night texts to brainstorm this, you know, the subtitle of my book ad nauseum to make sure that I was good with it. And, you know, my family’s been so supportive, and then also my professional network, actually, somebody from that first job, bought my book, and I almost cried, I was just so surprised to see that, you know, a door that was open years ago, was still open, and that, that my tribe was still my tribe, and it’s still growing. And wherever I live, I can bring it with me. And I can continue to add to their network and their success, too. So I will just say, you know, I ended up moving to Chicago from Austin, I felt that a lifestyle change was necessary, I wanted to expand my wings, and, you know, live in a different state live in a different city, and, you know, meet new people, I met my husband there. So I followed my instinct. And it led me to a great place and some of my best friends. And while I was there, I worked for a small SEO company, digital marketing company that was reaching out to bloggers, like myself to promote products and services. And then I was also on the receiving end of media outreach as a blogger where products and brands wanted to, you know, have exposure to my audience, and asked me to promote their products and services. And in both cases, I noticed that there was room for improvement in terms of deepening the quality of those interactions. And in terms of expressing intention showing preparation, I felt like maybe they didn’t even know where I lived, because I moved and they hadn’t, you know, read my about page or they didn’t know a lot about my audience, and they weren’t really customizing the offer to partner with me in a way that would be most valuable for my audience. So I started to notice these trends, and I thought, well, how can we improve the quality of our communications and business and that was just the beginning of a six and a half, six plus year quest to discover what works, what works well when we’re reaching out to others. In our careers, whether new or nurturing former existing relationships with a manager, with your team, with your colleagues, with your prospective clients, if you’re an entrepreneur with potential startup funders or partners, or you know, for hiring managers, if you’re interviewing, etc. So high quality connections can take many forms. And I’m proud to say that I now have, you know, done some social psychology research to to prove why they work for us how they help us how they improve our health, our mind, body and community as well. And currently, I work at a global technology company. And I’ve been fortunate to take what I’ve learned and throughout this discovery process, and one example of actually putting it into work was when I was able to bring two internal teams together, that hadn’t previously really worked together, simply because we had a, you know, our own our own goals, our own our own teams, as a very large company, which is very common in big companies, you know, lots of teams have their own goals, and they’re not, they don’t know each other, or they’re not necessarily collaborating yet. So I was fortunate to be able to work really hard to open the door and uncover some opportunities, where we were able to bring some really amazing customer solutions to the marketplace, as a result of this collaboration. So I have seen that it works. It doesn’t have to be just with a hiring manager or just for interviews, it can also be the way that we approach our interactions within a company or within our teams. So it’s a very broad topic, but it applies to career growers, career builders and career changers. And my philosophy is when we prepare to connect, and we are intentional about how we knock thoughtfully on others doors to, you know, open that door, that opportunities will knock for all of us. So this methodology is a lot about impact, what we can do together, how I can add value to what you’re doing, how I can come from a place of contribution, rather than a place of request, always. And so that’s a little bit more about how it’s led me to today.

Lisa Lewis Miller  17:15  

Amazing, well, let’s, let’s dive into the knock method and the five steps within it.

Rebecca Leder  17:22  

Yes, so I won’t give away all five. But the knock method is a five step method. It is the culmination of a lot of research and actually testing it out with in workshops, and then also my own experiences. And so the first step I’ll mention is one of the most critical steps is about preparation and research so that you can know something about the person you’re going to meet with before you meet with them, aside from those that you meet spontaneously, which we all hope to have more of in the future. But especially while we’re at home, or we’re working virtually, or we’re still isolated, a lot of the introductions in the meetings that we have are preset. So that’s works to our advantage, because we have the time to uncover information about those individuals, those companies those opportunities, whether it’s just asking the mutual friend who connected you, hey, what’s their personality? Like? What can I expect? When I meet with them? What do you think they’re going to, you know, be most excited about with, you know, here’s, here’s my top track, or it could be looking on LinkedIn, it could be looking at a company website to figure out what their values are, and what their recent initiatives have been. Maybe they’ve acquired companies, check out those stocks. And really, that research can prepare you so you feel more confident when you’re reaching out to someone you don’t know or meeting with someone you don’t know. And it also helps you unlock commonality, which brings people’s guards down and makes it feel more familiar and authentic when you’re meeting with someone and less like you’re being sold to and more about a partnership and curiosity. And I mentioned in my book, you know, meeting with people, whether it’s for, you know, just a partnership on a new project at work, or whether it’s a new job opportunity, or a future client, is I spend 70% of my time researching. And then I spend 20% of the time crafting my message and my personal brand and my talk track. And then it’s only about 10%, where I’m actually connecting because everybody’s so busy that you might be meeting virtual copy for 25 or 30 minutes, or even an hour, but we don’t have infinite time, right. So of course, you may, you know, hopefully you open the door you can meet again in the future. But if you break it down, even when you meet the second time, there’s still research to be had, hey, let me check out social media and see what they’ve been up to lately or let me follow up on that, that thing that we talked about last time. So it’s really really heavy on the preparation side, which allows you to uncover and present you know, the valuable ways that you can work together and how you can help the other person contact organization up front. And in that case, there’s, you know, hopefully not a lot of doubt in their minds about whether or not it’s gonna be worth it to me with you, because you’ve already invested the time in that opportunity. And in that relationship, even before you open the door.

Lisa Lewis Miller  20:22  

I love that. And it feels like especially hearing your story about when you were running your blog, and you were pitched by a PR company, and it felt so generic. I think that we all know how it feels to get a message that really doesn’t feel like it was actually meant for us. It was just copied and pasted, or it was spammy. I mean, my goodness. I mean, anybody who’s listening to this is having this experience on LinkedIn, definitely send me a note on social media or comment on my post on LinkedIn, I have been getting all kinds of spammy requests and connection, things are very salesy pieces of outreach on LinkedIn, and it’s so devoid of the thoughtfulness that you’re articulating as this first step of who is this person? Why would they want to engage with me? What do I need from them that they are the only person on the planet who can help me with? You know, if I get one more LinkedIn message from somebody who’s like, what do you do? I am just going to smack my head into a wall. Because you’re so right, that there’s so many opportunities to prepare and show up in a more informed, more professional, more thoughtful way. That in this digital day and age, there’s almost no excuse for reaching out to somebody and having it feel generic and boring.

Rebecca Leder  21:41  

I agree, I think it will probably feel like daunting and weighty and heavy and slow for people who maybe haven’t thought about this before. And it is, it really is, it will take me sometimes 30 to 45 minutes, sometimes multiple sessions over days, if I have a really big meeting to prepare, but the outcome is so much better, because you don’t spend that 30 minutes, like really catching up from the beginning of time with them, like, oh, what do you do? And how long have you been there? Like you already know, some details? Of course, you might want to say, you know, it looks like you’ve been at this company for about five years, is that correct? Right. Like there’s a way to show that the research was there, but give them the opportunity to to add, you know, their experience, but it is of high quality, which requires more time and effort, but the output of that relationship can be so much more high quality as well. So it takes a lot of time. But also it’s a good test, where if you don’t necessarily feel like you’re prepared to send that message in a meaningful and thoughtful way, you’re you might not be ready yet. It might not be the time, if you don’t know, the subject that you’re going to talk to them about, you might need to go back to the drawing board do a little bit more research. And that’s okay. And I will say it doesn’t take a ton of time to do it. Sometimes. I mean, sometimes it’s just a matter of Oh, I have this meeting today, let me just quit, you know, check their LinkedIn profile, which I’ve done with you, Lisa, before we met, let me see where our common ground intersects, right, like we live in the same city. And we’re both interested in how to create meaningful careers. So we have that in common. And it doesn’t have to be waiting, it doesn’t have to take forever. But like I said, recently, I had a very big meeting, and I got pushed back a few times, which I would have gotten frustrated about, but then I thought Actually, this can be a little bit more time to prepare. And I did I asked someone on that leaders team, you know, can you give me a little insight into what you know, what she’s gonna be like, what is you know, like, what’s top of mind for her right now. And they got some really great insight about, you know, she might kind of, you know, look at you like, she’s not quite sure what you’re sharing, or she might ask you a bunch of questions. And just so you know, it means she’s not quizzing you, it means that she’s sort of processing and she’s trying to work through what you’re saying. And then there’ll be a point where she’ll probably, you know, come up with an idea at the end of the meeting, I was exactly how it went. But because I had been thoughtful about reaching out to her team and making sure that I was maximizing the time for her, I felt much more confident about the meeting, because I could also mention, you know, I reached out to your team member to prepare for this meeting, and she shared the following. So it can really provide an advantage, not just for you, but for the other person. And it’s really a map the the name of the game, which is not a game, but the The bottom line is, how can I ensure that this is going to be valuable for both of us and show that to them? And therefore, like I said, there’s no question in their mind that there’s going to be value that you can both bring to each other.

Lisa Lewis Miller  24:51  

Well, let me ask you to expound on that a little bit. Because so many people when they’re thinking about networking and relationship building are typically looking to start close relationships with folks who are more senior than they are, who are further along in their career path or are better subject matter experts in a certain area. And it’s really easy to find yourself falling into the fear based thought of, well, what do I bring to the table? Why would they want to talk with me? And I hear you on making sure to do your preparation and your background research on the person to make sure that the conversation is really fruitful, and you get what you need out of it. But can you speak to that element of how how you create value for the other person, especially if you are more junior, or significantly more junior, than the person who you’re reaching out to?

Rebecca Leder  25:38  

We say you’re spot on. There’s a section in the second chapter of the book that combats these fears, that exact fear of why would someone want to meet with me, I’m just starting out, they’re busy, they have a lot of important meetings. And so there are a few things I would say to that. One is, for people who are more established to help others, they have an advantage because the topic of interest, whatever you’re looking to ask them about whether it’s a career transition, or what is it like working in this industry, or a particular role that you’re interested in, they know that by the back of their hands, so while it may be a significant effort for you to prepare and meet for this, for them, it might just be Yeah, great, no problem I noticed in and out, I can easily talk to you. So it’s not as much of a lift on them to provide you with some of that insight. So um, so there’s that differential to think about. And then also, as I mentioned before, the more that you showcase, why you are looking to have them lend a little bit of their time, when you show why you’re reaching out to them specifically, and that you’ve spent all this time on them specifically, and what’s important to them and their initiatives. And it just becomes much, much more intuitive for someone to meet with you. Because they can see that you’re going to have a productive conversation, you’re already up to speed, they’re not going to have to, you know, start from the beginning and tell you everything that they’re doing, you’ll already have a little bit of that insight. So it’s really about just showing your intention and your genuine interest in their work. A lot of people want to be able to share that and pass that on. And it’s very likely, if not 100% true that their success is the result of others making time to help them as well. So I think, you know, those are some of the points that I shared to combat that fear. So investment is one of the subsections of a step in the knock method, which is about putting in the work up front. And whether that’s, you know, trying a product, I saw someone posts on LinkedIn that she was, you know, a leader at a beverage company, and she was hiring people. And she interviewed all these people, and only three people tried the beverage. And she thought how is it possible that you could interview for a role and you don’t even know the product, right? So that’s a perfect example of investing. So you don’t necessarily have to buy a product, if it’s expensive, or buy a expensive ticket to a big conference, you could volunteer at the conference, you could watch a recording online, you could download a free, you know, sample of a Kindle book, or buy someone’s book to support them and let them know your thoughts on, you know, what they’ve done was not applied. For me. I’ve actually done that a lot for other authors and people that I’ve been looking to reach out to, and fortunately, some that have been featured in my book. But I’ve gone to conferences and made time to see people speak and speak to them afterwards. So what are some ways that you can invest in the opportunity and the person up front. And when you share that, you know, people people want to know that there’s interest in the work that they’re doing and what they’re doing matters. So it’s, you know, we get in our heads about it, and it feels scary, but the knock method is designed to boost our confidence because we have a guide, and we have a way that we can show up intentionally. So that, you know, if we’re not prepared, it’s easy to feel nervous and doubtful. But if we’re prepared, we’re going to feel like we have a plan. And we know how we’re going to approach it. Of course, it’s human, that agenda might get scrapped, maybe they’re having a bad day, maybe it gets pushed five times. I’ve been on the receiving end of that a lot lately. But if you’re prepared and you continue to highlight, you know, really looking forward to connecting with you when your time allows, by the way, I’ve been reading your book or by the way, I watched your video on XYZ or I saw your article or I, you know, notice your company’s doing XYZ it just shows that you’re putting in the work.

Lisa Lewis Miller  29:55  

I love that and I feel like there’s so many different pieces of that that I want to respond to and make sure that listeners are Hearing you know, one is that even if you’re more junior, and you’re reaching out for a conversation, the joy of mentorship and getting to invest into somebody else is a gift, you are giving that person by giving them the opportunity. And also, if you’re in any way, somebody that they can refer to a colleague, to help them fill an opening that they have. Or if you’re somebody who they can submit as an internal referral for an opening, you might make them a cool 2000 3000 5000, maybe more dollars in a referral bonus. So don’t sell yourself short on all the different ways that you might be making value and creating a mutually beneficial opportunity for the other person. But Rebecca, the thing that you just said about investing, Oh, my gosh, that’s so important. Because a lot of us get caught up in this sort of like ROI based method of the game when it comes to relationship building. I don’t really want to invest all that much time in this because I don’t know what I’m going to get out of it. And the willingness to say, you know, what, I’m interested enough. And this is important enough to me that I am choosing to invest in this, even if the return on this investment is uncertain, is critically important to open doors and create opportunities for yourself. Because being committed, and dedicating yourself to something is a huge piece of being able to be successful and get results,

Rebecca Leder  31:29  

I could not have said that better. And that is one of the essences of knock, which is if you’re not passionate about enough about something to reach out to someone or to pursue an opportunity, or you’re not able to articulate why that opportunity struck your eye, if that’s right phrase, or why something is of interest, and that you think you can contribute to, then it may not be the right opportunity. And that’s okay. And that’s where the research piece comes in. And I say research is a filter, because not only does it help us figure out how to craft our message, but we might end up doing the research and say, You know what, that’s actually not the right opportunity for me. And I’m glad I spent the time doing it, because now I’m not going to waste my time when they’re time talking about something that’s just not going to be, you know, in everyone’s best interest. So, yes, I cannot emphasize that enough that it is about streamlining and identifying those relationships, opportunities, where your dad excited about it, that you’re willing to do a little extra research, you’re willing to craft that personalized message, you’re willing to download the Kindle, you know, preview, and then mention to them what what you thought was interesting, or chase them down at the end of their speaking their talk at a conference, you know, that passion and that energy is appreciated by others. And it doesn’t have to be in a creepy stalkerish way. Like there’s some, you know, some, some thought behind it and some, you know, genuine interest. But that investment really goes a long way. And it also helps you. It helps you discover where you want to go and helps you identify your direction. And I’ve seen that multiple times in my own pursuits where I thought, Oh, this is going to be the right opportunity. Like I know it, I’m going to do the personalized cover letter, I’m going to reach out, I’m going to do all the research, I do it I interview and then I’m like, you know what, actually, I feel myself sort of reaching like, this isn’t the right. I don’t think it’s the right thing. But I wouldn’t know it unless I did all of that. All of that effort. And unless I, you know, interviewing, for example, is a form of research because it is a two way street. So, you know, we need to allow ourselves, the space and the discovery and the curiosity and the permission to to be surprised. And to know that you know, that discovery and that relationship if the door is open, but it may end up opening the door to opportunities that you never thought you’d ever even imagine because you just didn’t know what was possible once you open that door. So it’s about intention and planning. But we also have to be open enough to allow the conversation and the human element to lead it where it’s gonna go.

Lisa Lewis Miller  34:36  

Absolutely. And using research as a litmus test and allowing yourself to be surprised and giving yourself the space to become interested in something or not, can make your relationship development works so much more efficient. Because if you just get it in your head, there’s there’s somebody who I know who got it into her head that she was just supposed to be working in digital marketing like that. was a really natural spot, it looked like on paper, it could be a good fit for a lot of the things that she was interested in and had done and brought to the table. But when she did that research process, and started having initial informational interview conversations with folks about the digital marketing space, she realized, like, Oh, actually, I don’t want to be doing this demand generation and monitoring paid media campaigns, and being on Facebook Ads Manager every single day, it became really clear that, oh, I could have been running down this pathway and sending out my application for 50, digital marketing type roles a week. And I would have gotten interviews, and I might have felt this pressure to perform in the interviews, and I could have landed jobs and stepped into something that was gonna feel so wildly off base and off mission for me that it really had a huge return on investment, or return on interest, you know, if you will, for giving myself the space to do that research, and to explore my interest before taking any more committed steps in that direction.

Rebecca Leder  36:06  

That’s a great example. And I think that that is so true. And luckily, she listened to herself and listened to her intuition and was able to then redirect her course.

Lisa Lewis Miller  36:18  

Absolutely. Well, Rebecca, what was the thing that that you felt like was the most unexpected, or the most interesting insight that you got to include in your book, from your research and from your the stories that you collected?

Rebecca Leder  36:33  

Wow. So I would say that there is a lot of research that says that isolation, and loneliness can cause a lot of health risks. And it can be as dangerous if not more than excessive smoking and alcohol abuse on our bodies. And I thought that was profound, because we don’t think about, oh, yeah, you know, like, I have wordfriends, like, Oh, that’s great for my body, my mind, like it. Sounds nice. Sure. Okay, I’ll keep going to happy hours when we can do it safely. But that was pretty eye opening. There’s a book behind me by Dr. Vivek Murthy. He was just reinstated as the Surgeon General under the Biden administration for the second time. And his his book is about how he traveled all over the world, and saw all kinds of people with all kinds of ailments. And what he saw was at the root of a lot of it was loneliness, and isolation. This was even before the pandemic. And so that was, you know, the start of his discovery, which was that isolation can cause us to feel really stressed and disconnected, and negative and scared and fearful and, and that can actually cause a lot of health risks that are actually health ailments that are physical and mental in nature. And so the fact that we could build high quality connections in our careers, to offset that, and to combat that was not necessarily a logical conclusion that I would have come to on my own. Maybe, you know, you could say, Oh, yes, if you have family or your around your friends, you know, you feel better, and you have a social life and your life is balanced. And therefore, you know, it’s it’s healthier, but the fact that that can take place in the workplace and that compassion in the workplace. So our response and active response to our co workers or colleagues suffering, if people are going through, you know, tough experiences, if they’ve had loss, everyone’s experienced last through the pandemic, whether it’s, you know, just loss of routine loss of, you know, people that they love, which is the most sad about this experience, or just loss of what we would consider freedom to go out and do what we want to do that loss and is something people are struggling with, in you know, their mental health. So, while leaning into our careers, and working more isn’t necessarily the solution. And there are ways that we can act compassionately in our careers and in our career relationships that can help offset those, those health risks that come from isolation. And it feels difficult, it feels unnatural through zoom. But I’ve worked remotely for over six years and can proudly say that I’ve been able to open the door to new relationships and also nurture existing ones, even working remotely. So it can actually make a big difference. When you you know, ask your teammates something personal at the beginning of a call, you know, how was your weekend? How was your week or in my case, I asked my team for one win and one challenge could be in their personal personal life could be at work, and they get the opportunity to just share and open up and many people haven’t really been able to do that with family and friends this year. So I would say it’s been really profound to learn about the health physical and mental health impacts of the quality of our career relationships.

Lisa Lewis Miller  40:05  

That’s awesome. And if for anybody listening, if this resonates with you, I have another interview coming down the pipeline on the Career Clarity Show that is all about how work can have physical impacts on our health and our stress in our lives. So look out for an episode coming in a couple weeks from Career Clarity Show certified coach Kelly shields where we take a piece of what Rebecca just shared and really expound upon that. Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your brilliance and your research and your methodology. And for people who have been listening to this, who would love to feel a little bit more equipped to build generous giving mutually beneficial relationships? Where can they find out more about you your body of work and your book?

Rebecca Leder  40:52  

Yes, so the knock method calm is the main website, you can find information about buying the book, it’s available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. And you can ask your local bookstore to carry it. We also have a LinkedIn group, you can search groups for the knock method. And you can connect with people across all industries and levels of experience, you can pose your questions about upcoming meetings. Or if you need a little boost of confidence, we also are in the process of launching digital badges that say knock my doors open, which serves as a signal to your community and your network that you’re open to. Coffee chats are open to connecting and you’re open to new opportunities. And we have a little demo video coming where you can see how to add it to your email signature to your LinkedIn profile as a project and also at the top of your profile. We have a fun way to do that. And that way, you know, people it’s a conversation starter. So if networking is not the most fun thing for you, this is a great way to just put that signal out there and have people ask you, hey, what’s this knock my doors open thing about and you can talk about how you’re a part of the knock method community of intentional career relationship builders. 

Lisa Lewis Miller  42:08  

Amazing. Well, Rebecca, thank you so much for coming on the Career Clarity Show and making networking and relationship building feel so much more approachable, thoughtful, and strategic.

Rebecca Leder  42:18  

Thank you so much. I appreciate all of your insight, and even the anecdotes that you shared that really backup why you know, slowing down and making these high quality career relationships is not only good for us, but it strengthens all of our relationships with each other.

Lisa Lewis Miller  42:41  

And that’s a wrap. Let us know what you thought about today’s episode. leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Because not only can your stars and words help us find great guests and topics to feature on future episodes. Your input also helps other people find the resources they need to discover the work that lights them up. And make sure to check out my book Career Clarity Show finally finds the work that fits your values and lifestyle for the link to order it go to GetCareerClarity.com/book. And don’t forget to get your other tools, resources and helpful goodies at GetCareerClarity.com/podcast. Thanks again for joining us for the Career Clarity Show today. And remember, if you don’t love your work, we should talk because life is too short to be doing work that doesn’t light you up. Talk to you next time.